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Some good comments here. But there is still that element of doubt. Pity, because the model range is good and the vehicles are well designed and built. Back to the drawing board. The more I look the more I return to a Skoda Yeti or Octavia or a Ford Kuga. Diesel and manual of course.
Cheers Concrete
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Honda CRV with the diesel engine is an excellent car
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"No reports on Mazda forums on problems with skyactiv diesels"
Hmm, not sure it's quite the same impression I get from www.mazda6oc.co.uk.
If you count engine error codes and trips to the dealers inbetween services to have 'updates', plus watching oil dipsticks/dash warning lights, then yes no problems.
Also a dealer suggesting an engine oil flush prior to renewing oil as an extra cost too.
But to be fair they are 'sorting' it by the look of things, see an article under 'aircon' in that forum (it got hijacked somewhat by diesel engine chat).
Apart from the towing angle I would go for a petrol, not the same torque but surprisingly pulls well from low revs. I can drive mine 'like' a diesel and on a run (150 miles) mainly dual carriage way get 46 mpg (indicated) so even knocking off 10% (manufacturers wishful markup) you are still in the forties. It will trundle along in 6th gear doing 40 mph. Around rural/ town I still get an indicated 40 to 42 mpg. But lots of traffic can affect this. Pretty good for a large car with a 2 litre petrol engine.
I'm sure there are other topics in there discussing diesel engines and oil, takes time but do your research you may find there is'nt an issue that would effect your driving requirements, but don't listen to a salesman :-)
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Thanks nailit. Is your petrol a Mazda? As stated the only reason I decided to stick with diesel was the torque at low revs. My current annual mileage would exclude diesel from normal motoring needs. Just conflicting stories about initial start when towing. However when caravans were first brought into the market I suppose 99.99% of cars were petrol. Low bhp and torque too I suppose. More food for thought. Cheers Concrete
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What is your annual mileage? If low petrol is the way to go
Edited by Big John on 25/05/2016 at 23:57
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What is your annual mileage? If low petrol is the way to go
Hello John, about 6 to 8K per annum now. But having just bought a caravan I need to tow, so diesel is the real deal for that. Plenty of torque at low revs for setting off with a big load. Otherwise I would love a petrol and probably go Honda. Cheers Concrete
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Concrete, "is your petrol a Mazda?", yes Mazda 6 Sport facelift 2015 model 165 PS.
Lots on internet re. towing, I think Whatcar did a test, but the Mazda 6 petrol took a hammering on mpg when towing 52% drop in economy, being good solo, IIRC.
Just had a look at whatcar, solo scored 44mpg town,51mpg open road, and average 47mpg.
Honest john real average 43.5 mpg, percentage 88% (better knock off 12%)
My question is do the peeps who report the mpg's (not just journo's) take their reading straight off the car trip/computer? as I don't trust it, why I tend to knock off 10%. I know the best way is to fill up and note miles and then fill up again. Trouble is it takes me months to use a tank full, unless going on holidays or summat.
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Thanks nailit. I will check out the Mazda petrol CX5. Unfortunately all the reviews of towing vehicles seem to be for diesel powered vehicles, that in itself tells a story. Diesel is undoubtedly better for towing than petrol. My friend tows with a Passat diesel and consumption drops to about 35mpg from about 50ish when towing. Not bad considering he tows a 4 berth.
Cheers Concrete
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Diesel is undoubtedly better for towing than petrol.
Not now!
A turbo'd engine is undoubtedly better for towing - huge torque at low rpm - until recently the only turbo-petrols were very high performance cars - but most brands are introducing turbo-petrols in family cars/CUVs/SUVs.
Historically a turbo-diesel was undoubtedly better for towing than a non-turbo-petrol.
Use the maximum torque figure as a benchmark - but be aware that the industry is inconsistent about showing Nm and Lb Ft (1.0 Ft Lb = 1.35 Nm)
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In which case the Octavia vRS petrol might tow as effectively as the diesel.
According to the What Car table, the vRS petrol (217 bhp) has 258 lb ft of torque, the vRS diesel (184 bhp) has 280 lb ft, and the ordinary 2.0 TDI (150 bhp) has 252 lb ft. So not a lot in it, and the petrol vRS is a joy to drive for the rest of the time when you don't have the caravan hitched up.
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In which case the Octavia vRS petrol might tow as effectively as the diesel.
According to the What Car table, the vRS petrol (217 bhp) has 258 lb ft of torque, the vRS diesel (184 bhp) has 280 lb ft, and the ordinary 2.0 TDI (150 bhp) has 252 lb ft. So not a lot in it, and the petrol vRS is a joy to drive for the rest of the time when you don't have the caravan hitched up.
I am no expert nor mechanical engineer, but as I understand it, it is not the actual power in lb ft that is the issue. It is where it is delivered in the rev band. Looking keenly recently I notice that there is more than sufficient lb ft for effective towing but in petrol form the engine delivers this at between 3500/4500 rev per min, whereas a diesel delivers it at between 1500/2000 revs per min. Setting off, when towing or not, is likely to be at the 1500 mark and not the 3500 mark. So when towing setting off is the hardest job, so you need the extra lb ft at setting off revs. If that makes sense. I stand to be corrected, but that is my take on it. Cheers Concrete
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I'm presuming its an 'engine stressing' issue, i.e. if the power is delivered at lower revs (and the peak power curve is quite flat), less strain is put upon the engine parts in trying to pull the load along from a standstill than if the car had to get to a higher amount of revs, and besides, the last thing I imagine the driver wants is to have to thrash their car just to make normal progress.
A petrol V8 (or possibly a V6) engine might do the job ok (though at a huge cost in fuel) for the same reason, but a 4cyl turbo-petrol (in my view) would not be good for towing except for lighter loads (than diesels of equivalent power). Obviously a non-turbo charged version would be even worse.
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I'm on my second CX-5 175 ps (173 bhp) with 420 nm at 2000 rpm (310 pound feet) And tow a 1565 kg caravan.
Avoid the early CX-5 diesels there was a few that had prematuring cam wear, prematuring vacuum pump wear (for the brakes), both of which could cause other failures due to blocked oil ways, the sequential turbo's for example.
After my 2013 manual 175 AWD sport had the vacuum pump changed i lost confidence in the car out of warranty, so bought another 2015 revised model car but in auto. I've only had this car since Nov last year so can't comment on its reliability as yet.
At 3K miles i have only a tiny oil rise say 1mm, but i don't do much more than 7K a year anyway. But you must check the oil level weekly to avoid being caught out with oil dilution, which in turn can lead to low oil pressure.
I intend to get a turbo petrol next with power and torque as quoted previously for the vag car, and with a 8 speed auto, but thats in another three years.
A modern turbo petrol is fine for towing, some give max torque now from as low as 1250 rpm up to high revs say 5K rpm, a much wider band than any equivalent diesel. I hate DPF as they destroy the economy.
The CX-5 average read out tells lies, its around 2.5mpg high on my car which others have found. So my auto returns around 38mpg allowing for the error, the manual car was over 40mpg.
On the plus side its a great towcar only the 88kg nose weight limit being the only negative. The 165ps non turbo car does not come close for towing, but fine for solo driving and very reliable.
Edited by xtrailman on 29/05/2016 at 22:09
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Thanks Andy and xtrailman, my main concern for a petrol vehicle is when setting off. If I need higher revs to start then the clutch will take the brunt of the strain, being let in at over 2500 revs. As setting off from a standstill is the hardest job for a tow vehicle this needs consideration. Once in motion most engines should be able to maintain decent momentum. Don't fancy replacing a clutch every 10K or so. Never had to replace a clutch in any vehicle I have owned or kept. How can I find out which petrol engines deliver decent torque at lower revs?
Good news on the Mazda front though. I do like the vehicle CX5.
Cheers Concrete
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I have towed with petrol and diesel had four cars where the clucth got so hot that you could smell it burning, but never needed to change a clutch.
A motor mover is your best friend and will easily pay for its self overtime.
Best way to find cars that have low down torque is to look at the brochures assuming you are buying new.
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Reply to nailit: The 49.19mpg I averaged in my long-term Mazda 6 2.2d 150 SEL automatic over 13,732 miles was measured brim to brim, exclusively on Shell V-Power, though, of course, these were 'recorded miles', so probably about 3% more than real miles: www.honestjohn.co.uk/our-cars/mazda-6-22d-se-l-nav.../
HJ
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Honda CRV with the diesel engine is an excellent car
The 2.2 gained many fans with caravanners. The new 1.6, not so many.
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Beware the hidden costs of DPF refills at 45,000miles + new DPF filter !
Beware running at less than 2000rpm for any length of time.
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I ran a Mazda 6 2.2 Skyactiv D150 auto for 14,000 miles with no trouble, but mostly long distances. I think the trouble (and the trouble with other active DPF regenerations) comes from drivers switching the engines off while the DPF is actively regenerating. Volvo owners have been warned about this. If you get out of the car and can smell heat, that's the DPF actively regenerating in a cycle where the ECU feeds extra fuel into the engine. If that extra fuel isn't burned, it sinks into the sump and reacts with the sump oil to congeal and block the sump strainer. It also raises the level of the sump oil and if that gets beyond a critical point, a compression ignition engine will simply run on its sump oil uncontrollaby until it seizes.
HJ
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Weird. Just had another one. Low oil pressure light on a 2014 2,2d Skyactiv 9,000 miles after an oil service. It's in the car by car entry but not in Ask because he did not give type of use or total mileage of the car. That could be to come.
HJ
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my 2.2d 175 regenerates every 220km approx whether driven at speed or slowly round town, and the oil level rises about 1cm every 5000km; Mazda NZ specifies 10000km or 6 month oil changes.
Not happy with the level of oil dilution which may approach 10-20% if it takes 1 litre to go from full to max on the dipstick; I note commercial diesels such as Caterpillar do not approve even 2.5% dilution
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Having now cleared 8K miles and around 18 months i can report my car has very little oil dilution, perhaps 3 or 4mm rise on the dipstick..
So looking promising.
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