From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk

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Wed 8 Jun 2016 10:12
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - oldroverboy.

According to the SMMT, British motorists spend £695 each every year looking after their cars – 12% more than the global average.

The SMMT turned this into a news item, headlined: "British cars among world’s best kept with £21.1 billion spent on service and repair every year." And numerous motor websites simply ran that, as it stood, without sitting back and thinking about it.

£695 per British motorist is a lot of money. But it doesn't follow that British cars are "among world’s best kept." It translates that Brits are being asked to fork out more for work on their cars than the citizens of other countries.

That doesn't mean Brits are being ripped off. It only means they are being asked to pay more in garage 'labour rates' that in turn are based on the cost of the property where the labour takes place. And this is the penalty of an economy that depends on constantly rising property values in order to function at all. The more the 'value' of your house goes up, the more you're going to have to pay for work done in any property.

I'd have dumped the press release in my clippings file had the difference in the prices of work on cars not been brought home to me over the past week.

Our 97,000 kilometre Honda Jazz in Thailand was due for a 10,000 kilometre oil change. 'Fully synthetic', plus filter, properly drained from the sump and the engine cleaned up with an air-line all for £42.

A rear offside wheel bearing became noisy. Straight to the nearest Honda franchise. Booked in and done the same afternoon for £58, and correctly shown the worn-out part on collection.

In contrast, a BMW 3-Series owning reader has a new offside rear wheel bearing fitted by a BMW dealer in the UK and it cost him £350.

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Wed 8 Jun 2016 10:31
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - madf

"Global average".

A meaniingless phrase: rather like the article.

Guess what? The cost of servicing in China is likely to be VERY cheap due to low labour costs.There are millions of cars in China: so the Global Average is going to be reduced by Chinese servicing costs.

Smoke and mirrors article. BS.

Edited by madf on 08/06/2016 at 10:31

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Wed 8 Jun 2016 11:45
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - RT

"Global average".

A meaniingless phrase: rather like the article.

Guess what? The cost of servicing in China is likely to be VERY cheap due to low labour costs.There are millions of cars in China: so the Global Average is going to be reduced by Chinese servicing costs.

Smoke and mirrors article. BS.

Agreed - and the average age will vary considerably - the lower the age the more likely to be serviced at high franchised dealer rates.

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Wed 8 Jun 2016 10:34
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - Mike H

Here in Austria, a litre of fully synth oil for our CR-V cost over €20 at our first oil change.

The 20,000km service is happening this afternoon, it will be interesting to see the cost of that.

We had some work done on our old Saab this time last year. The dealership was a huge glass palace, shared with Audi and GM, but we only paid €80 per hour for the labour.

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Thu 9 Jun 2016 18:40
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - Mike H

The 20,000km service is happening this afternoon, it will be interesting to see the cost of that.

Grand total of €300. Oil at €23.90 per litre (4.7 required), €15 for an oil filter, €21 for a pollen filter (much cheaper than the Saab, but surprised that it's replaced at 20,000km, the Saab one was IIRC 72,000 miles), and €90 labour (12 units, whatever they may be, at €7.50). All plus 20% tax.

First time for years I haven't serviced the car myself, but no option this time as it was new last October, and on a PCP/lease agreement. I thought it was all quite reasonable, except the oil was the usual rip-off as I could have sourced 5 litres independently for what they charged me per litre).

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Wed 8 Jun 2016 10:35
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - gordonbennet

I'd like to see that figure broken down more.

Maybe in Britain we pay over the odds for labour and parts charges (sounds like it from HJ's Thai bills), more so because we're addicted to in some cases and buy lots of premium German makes? do we pay more for repairs because we believe (ok we here don't) that 20k* service intervals are ok?

Maybe we buy cars with more electronic toys to go wrong, maybe many people no longer do anything (even washing them or lifting the bonnet to check anything) at all to their cars where others who might have a different outlook arn't afraid to get their hands dirty and DIY to keep costs down.

*our Hilux had an oil change interval of 9k, that applied in this country to miles but in Australia and elsewhere to kms, wonder how better (and cheaper elsewhere) servicing translates to less repair costs overall, i doubt many here think preventive maintenance costly in the grand scheme.

Edited by gordonbennet on 08/06/2016 at 10:37

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Wed 8 Jun 2016 11:47
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - colinh

Wonder if the UK motorists are getting value for money? Regularly drive across Spain and it's rare to see a car broken down on the hard shoulder - weather and amount of traffic probably help. Average age Spanish car = 9.5 v. 7.7 UK. May help that it's an offence to run out of fuel here. Also you don't see the equivalent of the AA, RAC, etc., here - think many UK motorists rely on these breakdown services as their mechanics. Labour rate at last main dealer service - £45.50

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Wed 8 Jun 2016 14:10
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - madf

My first 5 years' servcing cost the prior owner £500

So IF these figures are correct, LOTS of people are paying £1k plus a year to keep their car running. Based on my experience with a high mileage Audi A4TDI - whcih cost Audi Warranty over £2k in two years - exhaust, brakes,suspension, aircon all failed - I can believe it..

Mercedes sell lots of cars in the UK so do JLR. They are NOT cheap to run . nor are BMW..

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Thu 9 Jun 2016 06:12
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - Honestjohn

The point I think you're all missing is that the main element of cost in getting a car serviced or repaired in the UK is the cost of the building where it happens. As long as we live in an economy that is totally dependent on continually rising property prices, the cost of getting anything done in any premises will continue to go through the roof.

HJ

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Thu 9 Jun 2016 06:39
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - oldroverboy.

The point I think you're all missing is that the main element of cost in getting a car serviced or repaired in the UK is the cost of the building where it happens. As long as we live in an economy that is totally dependent on continually rising property prices, the cost of getting anything done in any premises will continue to go through the roof.

HJ

The same logic should apply to the "HIGH ST" then, but it doesn't as we pay less for many retail items than most european countries, with very few exceptions.

The cost of servicing is set by the manufacturers guidelines in the uk and is impacted by property taxes, which are also hurting the high st as well.

If a Jaguar dealer was "only" charging £60 an hour we would all be suspicious and expect our ford/vauxhall dealer to charge less.

Profit margins on parts to ordinary retail customers are high. I know, I was a parts manager and my annual bonus required me to meet targets.

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Thu 9 Jun 2016 08:32
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - RT

The point I think you're all missing is that the main element of cost in getting a car serviced or repaired in the UK is the cost of the building where it happens. As long as we live in an economy that is totally dependent on continually rising property prices, the cost of getting anything done in any premises will continue to go through the roof.

HJ

Franchised dealers don't have to have posh glass palaces in expensive parts of town - they choose to.

The hourly rate charged by franchised dealers is obscene compared to the hourly rate paid to the technicians - overheads have to be paid for but there should be a cap on that multiple.

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Thu 9 Jun 2016 09:04
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - gordonbennet

Franchised dealers don't have to have posh glass palaces in expensive parts of town - they choose to.

Not quite the case, the maker often dictates what standard of glass palace is required, can't/won't meet the quite frankly silly lengths things have gone to be prepared to lose the franchise.

I'm sure we all know of old but pleasant premises where the dealership has vanished and another opened up in a palace on a horrid retial park (how i detest those places), part of the reason being they couldn't see the point in spending £2 million to provide exactly the same service they'd have to charge an arm and leg for to pay for said palace.

This country has been through a 20 year plus period where image and umpteen managers has been of prime importance, its not over yet by a long chalk and i look forward to the day when this idiocy is history...you never know it might start to change should we vote to leave.

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Thu 9 Jun 2016 09:53
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - RT

OK, I'll re-phrase that - the auto industry chooses to.

To be fair though, it's even worse in America judging by the attitudes I see on international forums.

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Thu 9 Jun 2016 10:06
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - gordonbennet

To be fair though, it's even worse in America judging by the attitudes I see on international forums.

Groan, so not likely to end soon if the US is further down the road of image for its own sake, we usually adopt anything idiotic they do/have in due course.

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Thu 9 Jun 2016 11:50
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - John F

My son lives in New Jersey and drives a beat-up old Passat estate with the same reliable powertrain (2.8V6 ZF 5HP19) as my old A6 which required no 'servicing' between 4 and 15yrs old, 77,000 - 133,000 apart from oil changes, brakes and one broken front spring. His cambelt is original too!

The standard of vehicle inspection is far lower than here - basically an emissions test every 2yrs, not a safety test.

www.state.nj.us/mvc/Inspections/HowDoI.htm

IMHO I think the UK MoT can facilitate unscrupulous garages to fleece unsuspecting motorists.

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Thu 9 Jun 2016 12:35
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - sandy56

If you avoid the main dealer coffe/shops/showrooms, car servicing can be resonable in the UK.

Standard service and annual MOT- £202.00 in my local ,owner run, garage, last week. 2ltr diesel auto.

Normally get my own car serviced at a main dealer but I have had enough of silly unjustified bills.

I will use my local garage when I can.

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Thu 9 Jun 2016 14:08
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - brum

The problem is that Brits think £202 for an oil/filter change and an Mot is reasonable.

Oil/filter change costs me less than £15 with top quality parts/oil and mot cost me £27, which would have been £25 if I noticed the correct discount code.

It takes me 10 minutes to change oil/filter and the MOT is a pretty comprehensive check on my car.

Even at £100 per hour, garages cant justify charging £202.

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Thu 9 Jun 2016 19:06
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - John F

The problem is that Brits think £202 for an oil/filter change and an Mot is reasonable.

Oil/filter change costs me less than £15 with top quality parts/oil ....

I don't believe you, unless it's a small motorbike. Top quality longlife synthetic oil/decent filter with a non-return valve is not as cheap as this.

But the point is well made that many buy a 'service' as well as an MoT check which a creative unscrupulous garage can easily augment to a substantial three figure bill. Probably like you, I have never put my cars in for a 'service' - ever.

Just for info, my records show for the 10yrs June 2005-2015, my maintenance and repair costs for 2 cars (1998 Audi A6 2.8 and 2000 Focus 1.6) totalled £3804, or £190 per car per annum on average. That includes the MoT bills. About 55,000m for A6, 72,000m for Focus.

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Thu 9 Jun 2016 20:20
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - brum

The problem is that Brits think £202 for an oil/filter change and an Mot is reasonable.

Oil/filter change costs me less than £15 with top quality parts/oil ....

I don't believe you, unless it's a small motorbike. Top quality longlife synthetic oil/decent filter with a non-return valve is not as cheap as this.

20 litres (4 x 5litres) GM Dexos 2 from local dealer £60 i.e. £3 per litre. One car takes 2.8 litres the other 3.2 litres (in practice 0.1 to 0.2 litres less). Mann filters cost £3.50 or £5.50 dependent on engine. Ecp or gsf.

Mot £25 with online voucher from F1 autocentre

:)

Edited by brum on 09/06/2016 at 20:24

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Thu 9 Jun 2016 21:44
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - John F

Hmm. Impressive. But apparently VW 502, but not 504 so not long life. Must be a tiny engine if only 2.8l (Mine needs 12.5!).

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Fri 10 Jun 2016 00:30
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - Wackyracer

Hmm. Impressive. But apparently VW 502, but not 504 so not long life. Must be a tiny engine if only 2.8l (Mine needs 12.5!).

Look at the front of the container "fuel economy LONGLIFE" VW 502.00 505.00 505.01 , BMW longlife-04.

I'd say that is possibly longlife oil, yes?

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Fri 10 Jun 2016 00:39
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - brum

Also MB229.51 and GM both long life specs, up to 50,000 km in case of GM.

But I change at 9000 miles max.

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Sat 11 Jun 2016 15:28
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - focussed

I know of several franchised dealer type glass palaces that won't allow anything older than 3 years in their workshops - they sub-contract that service work to a small independent shop around the corner and then stick their margin on top.

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Sat 11 Jun 2016 17:04
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - RT

I know of several franchised dealer type glass palaces that won't allow anything older than 3 years in their workshops - they sub-contract that service work to a small independent shop around the corner and then stick their margin on top.

That would bother me - the more expensive a car, the longer a manufacturer's warranty I want, even if it costs to extend the original - but I'd want full dealer servicing during that time.

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Sat 11 Jun 2016 19:37
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - Wackyracer

That would tie in with the fact alot of main dealer "technicians" are pretty useless past basic service routines and they get self employed contractors to come in and do anything they can't manage.

A friend of mine has been doing diagnostic work for many franchised dealers for years as they don't have any staff on the payroll that are upto the job.

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Thu 9 Jun 2016 15:19
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - brum

The point I think you're all missing is that the main element of cost in getting a car serviced or repaired in the UK is the cost of the building where it happens. As long as we live in an economy that is totally dependent on continually rising property prices, the cost of getting anything done in any premises will continue to go through the roof.

HJ

Franchised dealers don't have to have posh glass palaces in expensive parts of town - they choose to.

The hourly rate charged by franchised dealers is obscene compared to the hourly rate paid to the technicians - overheads have to be paid for but there should be a cap on that multiple.

And the building is a capital asset that appreciates in value. So its cost to the business is in fact low, in many cases eg London, it actually contributes a lot to the business profit.

Unless of course they are stupid enough to rent it.

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Thu 9 Jun 2016 16:44
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - RT

The point I think you're all missing is that the main element of cost in getting a car serviced or repaired in the UK is the cost of the building where it happens. As long as we live in an economy that is totally dependent on continually rising property prices, the cost of getting anything done in any premises will continue to go through the roof.

HJ

Franchised dealers don't have to have posh glass palaces in expensive parts of town - they choose to.

The hourly rate charged by franchised dealers is obscene compared to the hourly rate paid to the technicians - overheads have to be paid for but there should be a cap on that multiple.

And the building is a capital asset that appreciates in value. So its cost to the business is in fact low, in many cases eg London, it actually contributes a lot to the business profit.

Unless of course they are stupid enough to rent it.

So servicing should be cheaper in those areas!

If a tabloid newspaper ran the story it would be a case of "rip-off Britain"

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Fri 10 Jun 2016 18:24
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - kiss (keep it simple)

I wonder what the annual service cost is in Cuba.

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Sat 11 Jun 2016 00:44
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - Avant

This is all an example of the First and Only Law of Economics - the right price is what some other poor sap will pay.

It applies as much to underlying labour costs as to the price charged to customers.

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Sat 11 Jun 2016 03:18
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - Honestjohn

I began with: "That doesn't mean Brits are being ripped off. It only means they are being asked to pay more in garage 'labour rates' that in turn are based on the cost of the property where the labour takes place. And this is the penalty of an economy that depends on constantly rising property values in order to function at all. The more the 'value' of your house goes up, the more you're going to have to pay for work done in any property." I'll end with that. Since the 1970s, successive chancellors have thrown in the towel and allowed the UK economy to grow on the basis of rising property values. In many parts of the country (not all; there's still Tow Law and Grimsby), these have now reached a point where the cost of somewhere to live so exceeds the ability of first time buyers to pay that many cannot even get onto the property ladder. That will eventually lead to disaster, but meanwhile people think they've never had it so good and go out and use the equity in their house to borrow. And if they buy or PCP a fancy new car that isn't on a service plan they will find that the cost of maintaining it is directly based on property values in their area. And that's why Brits pay more for car servicing than people in most other countries.

HJ

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Sun 12 Jun 2016 11:31
From HJ - Maintenance in the Uk - brum

A lot of manufacturers have national fixed servicing and maintenance pricing. So thats blows your theory out the water.

Vag have recently hiked their national pricing. Independents will follow that lead.

No, its rip off britain.

Edited by brum on 12/06/2016 at 11:34

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