VW - VW Emissions Scandal

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Fri 16 Sep 2016 14:24
VW - VW Emissions Scandal - mickeybay

I have just received the VW and DVLC letter inviting me to have my 2.0 TDI engine modified.

I quote from the letter:

‘…...able to carry out the technical measures relating to the NOx emissions issue affecting your Volkswagen vehicle.’

‘…..the measure will involve a software update to the engine management system.’

‘...there will be no change to your vehicle’s engine performance, maximum torque or noise levels.’

‘The performance data already published for your vehicle, including fuel consumption values and CO2 emissions will also remain unchanged.’

‘The software upgrades the engine management system in your affected vehicle by implementing elements such as an enhanced fuel injection pattern. …….without adverse effects to service life……….advances in diesel combustion technology which were not available at the time your vehicle was manufactured.’

VW and UK and European transport ministries have said from the start that the software 'cheat' only kicked in during the USA test and did not affect normal running or the European/UK test.

If the car passes the test without the software kicking in, then surely it is legal in the UK and doesn't need the fix?

If the software was only applied during the USA test, then the 'fix' should have no effect at all on normal running.

If that is so, then why is any 'fix' needed in Europe?

The latest newspaper claims of 'it may not be legal if you refuse' seems to me an attempt to push through a 'fix' that really IS needed and therefore there is something we are not being told, either:

a) Because they would then need to pay compensation in Europe which would possibly bankrupt VW (and Germany with it)

and/or

b) If they are able to fudge the issue for long enough, the models affected will all be older than 3 years, the time many are changed, and crucially the older they are, the greater the proportion that would then not be sold by VW dealers. If the original owners have 'upgraded', I would presume a claim for losses and misrepresentation would be much harder to prove and would be less anyway since the car is worth less the older it is.

Lastly,

1) ‘No change in maximum torque’, but what about the torque curve?

2) ‘No change in published fuel consumption or CO2 emissions’ - but these are from the old UK test. What about ‘real life’ ?

3) What about the claimed reduction in NOx? Was it actually higher than claimed at first?

I have no doubt others will say, “then do not have it done”, (and I do intend to hold off a while), but that would not answer any of the above.

Thoughts please :-)

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Fri 16 Sep 2016 14:43
VW - VW Emissions Scandal - Honestjohn

So far the only major report of problems with the fix has been with Tiguan 2.0TDIs of which we received 10 complaints. Seems that the engines develop a rattle in higher gears between 1,400rpm and 2,000rpm, which suggests to me that the fuelling is reduced and the cars are no longer developing sufficient torque in that rev range. I've suggested to owners that they try their engines on Shell V-Power Nitro Plus that has higher cetane and may restore the low rev torque. Haven't heard back from any of the readers I suggested it to and one reader is still waiting for his Tiguan to be called in which may mean the fix for Tiguans has been suspended. There is no point in asking VW PR about this.

HJ

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Fri 16 Sep 2016 15:31
VW - VW Emissions Scandal - brum

‘The software upgrades the engine management system in your affected vehicle by implementing elements such as an enhanced fuel injection pattern. …….without adverse effects to service life……….advances in diesel combustion technology which were not available at the time your vehicle was manufactured.’

www.theregister.co.uk/2016/09/12/vw_engineer_state.../

So all of sudden, they can write software and magically cure all emission problems which they found impossible to do for many years, without any negative effects.

I dont believe them.

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Fri 16 Sep 2016 17:00
VW - VW Emissions Scandal - mickeybay

Hi Brum,

Interesting link, just as potentially interesting are the comments.

Good link to a youtube vid as well in there, worth watching in full.

The link here goes to near the end of the vid - executive summary!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZSU1FPDiao&feature=youtu.be&t=58m

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Fri 16 Sep 2016 17:23
VW - VW Emissions Scandal - brum

Just watched the video, and it suggests to me that a lot mote adblue is going to be required by owners than was advertised in their marketing literature. From what I read, VAG have a proprietary method of filling adblue that effectively forces people to visit a dealer and have it done there at a ridiculous markup. So now there is a possibility that some people will have to visit a dealer every 3 or 4 tankfulls and pay a lot of money.

Win-win for dealer and vag. Unless of course people refuse the upgrade and demand proper compensation.

Whatever people do, they must not sign any documents that release vag or their dealers from any future responsibility or legal action. Read the small print VERY carefully.

Edited by brum on 16/09/2016 at 17:27

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Fri 16 Sep 2016 18:52
VW - VW Emissions Scandal - RT

From what I read, VAG have a proprietary method of filling adblue that effectively forces people to visit a dealer and have it done there at a ridiculous markup. So now there is a possibility that some people will have to visit a dealer every 3 or 4 tankfulls and pay a lot of money.

Not true in any way - some VW Group cars have their DEF/Adblue filler next to the diesel filler, behind the flap, others are in the boot or in the spare wheel well. All are accessible and refillable by the owner.

I recently paid £12.49 for 10 litres of DEF/Adblue, delivered, but VW have a published service of topping up the tank for you for £1.50/litre. I have a big VW SUV, over 2 tonnes, which uses lots of diesel but 10 litres of DEF/Adblue lasts 4,000 miles.

Filling station Adblue pumps can be used, much cheaper there, but the flowrate is high for HGVs - an issue for all brands of cars using DEF/Adblue.

The upgrades to 4-cylinder VW diesels don't involve installation of a DEF/Adblue system - the 6-cylinder diesel have one anyway and aren't affected by the VW cheat issue.

Facts are needed not rubbish urban myths!

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Fri 16 Sep 2016 19:07
VW - VW Emissions Scandal - focussed

My Honda Accord just uses diesel fuel - it doesn't need any funny other stuff - should I sell it and buy a car that uses funny other stuff as well as the fuel?

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Fri 16 Sep 2016 19:40
VW - VW Emissions Scandal - RT

My Honda Accord just uses diesel fuel - it doesn't need any funny other stuff - should I sell it and buy a car that uses funny other stuff as well as the fuel?

No - be grateful, look after it for a long time as any replacement will no doubt need "funny other stuff".

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Fri 16 Sep 2016 19:49
VW - VW Emissions Scandal - brum

Facts are needed not rubbish urban myths!

Not an urban myth, iirc the filler requires an adaptor to be plugged, which is part of the vw top up bottle. You cannot use a funnel. Yes I know you could cut a vw bottle up and use that as a filler, but normal Joe or Jane are not going to do that. And no, the adblue filler in the truckstop cant be used so not even worth mentioning,

And watch the video, VW software engineers appear to deliberately cut off adblue injection if youre not driving within a test cycle speed envelope. Why? Because everyone would be moaning if their car used 3 times as much Adblue is my guess.

Edited by brum on 16/09/2016 at 19:50

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Fri 16 Sep 2016 21:32
VW - VW Emissions Scandal - RT

Facts are needed not rubbish urban myths!

Not an urban myth, iirc the filler requires an adaptor to be plugged, which is part of the vw top up bottle. You cannot use a funnel. Yes I know you could cut a vw bottle up and use that as a filler, but normal Joe or Jane are not going to do that. And no, the adblue filler in the truckstop cant be used so not even worth mentioning,

And watch the video, VW software engineers appear to deliberately cut off adblue injection if youre not driving within a test cycle speed envelope. Why? Because everyone would be moaning if their car used 3 times as much Adblue is my guess.

You CAN use a funnel - I have, although I also bought the VW hose connector, just £13.

You simply DO NOT have to use the small expensive containers to refill VW DEF/Adblue tanks.

I just connect the VW hose to a 10 litre container and refill the tank - I only do it because I'm an anorak and like to know how much I'm using - as I posted earlier, at £1.50/litre most owners let the dealer do it.

Since I rarely drive within the test cycle (too much throttle!) and use Adblue, it must still be functioning.

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Mon 26 Sep 2016 10:10
VW - VW Emissions Scandal - Chris Gillie

I have a 2012 2litre golf cabriolet. Shortly due a service. I've been waiting for running reports of the fix before responding the letter. It looks like a nightmare. Once implemented it cannot be undone and various reports suggest vw are clueless.

My temptation is to go independent for servicing and not let vw near it, although I'm worried about retrospective mot regulation. Genuinely don't know what to do.

What are reports on other cars like, I've seen identical omplaints on a skoda superb on the Briskoda forum .there seem to be newer versions of the fix being issued

Are vw likely to resolve it do you think. Have they responded to the rough running report s surely they can't get away with it on so many cars.

What a mess

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Mon 26 Sep 2016 10:34
VW - VW Emissions Scandal - RT

I have a 2012 2litre golf cabriolet. Shortly due a service. I've been waiting for running reports of the fix before responding the letter. It looks like a nightmare. Once implemented it cannot be undone and various reports suggest vw are clueless.

My temptation is to go independent for servicing and not let vw near it, although I'm worried about retrospective mot regulation. Genuinely don't know what to do.

The MoT test has never tested/measured NOx, which this issue is about - and it can only be measured on a rolling road in laboratory conditions - so there seems to be no reason you can't omit the fix.

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Mon 26 Sep 2016 11:40
VW - VW Emissions Scandal - nortones2

There will be a test regime for Nox in the near future. Rolling road not required, as there are plans to test at certain engine speeds and loads, I believe. I think it might be wiser to get the changes done whilst it is "free", otherwise I can see a burgeoning aftermarket:)

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Mon 26 Sep 2016 14:19
VW - VW Emissions Scandal - RT

There will be a test regime for Nox in the near future. Rolling road not required, as there are plans to test at certain engine speeds and loads, I believe. I think it might be wiser to get the changes done whilst it is "free", otherwise I can see a burgeoning aftermarket:)

That'll be difficult - you can't do anything at load without a rolling road - anyway, there's no legal limits for NOx based on constant speed/load - the limits are defined as gm/km over the whole of the test cycle.

And the car makers would just programme their emissions software to operate at the tested speeds/loads and not otherwise!

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Mon 26 Sep 2016 15:16
VW - VW Emissions Scandal - mickeybay

If there is such a test, then surely it cannot be applied retrospectively, especially if that test is different from the certification test.

If that were the case, then most/all older vehicles, not just VW, would not pass and would be banned.

I maintain, we have been told by both the DVLC and VW that our VW's are still legal in the UK and do not need to have this change to remain legal.

If that is not the case, then we are due massive compensation as in the USA, even if there is a fix.

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Mon 26 Sep 2016 15:09
VW - VW Emissions Scandal - Chris Gillie

Granted but it could be as simple as having to provide documentar proof of the fix having been carried out I suppose. Although you'd be singling out particular vehicles fir an additional mot element which doesn't seem very practical. I think it's been talked about in general terms by commentators but nothing "official"

I'll ask my friendly mot man who also happens to own an affected car.

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Fri 30 Sep 2016 12:51
VW - VW Emissions Scandal - alastair125

I too think VW are doing their level best to avoid properly addressing these issues.

Further when I logged on their booking in website it was free collection of the car until the paymentline.Then they wanted a Tenner.After Tweets and phone calls etc they blamed the dealer.Finally...nothing can be done implying doing things in this direction situation wasn't policy.In the end AA are coming to do it at the house in an hour free.

The dealer now says it's all the VW websites fault so they might be clever with cheat software but simple Web programming has defeated Them!

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