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I've been to dealers who insisted on their morning meetings whatever, much to busy to check new cars in and i'd probably be blocking half the road outside with the transporter.
That's fair enough you might think and after all they are the customer and call the shots, though other dealers who worked with us received infinitely better service ie that special emergency car order we'd rush through to seal a deal, too thick to take that in.
The same couldn't care less attitude at some was awarded to the customers too, i've seen customers having to wait for ages to see a sales bod due to the statutory meeting, and seen enough of them walk out too vowing never to set foot in the dump again.
Clueless many of them, they deserve whats coming to them as the downturn bites hard.
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Andrew T, I'm not overly surprised but I've only bought three cars out of over 30 from a dealer so have llittle experience.
Still erring towards a 5008 or S-Max petrol. I've had the luxury of 5 years reliable service from MK1 Focus estates. Now need something bigger and fancy more modern. Budget up to £6,000 and must be petrol as mileage will be no more than about 10,000 a year. Have even wondered about S-max 1.8/2.0 tdci as petrols are not easy to find.
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For your budget, and given your views on dark interiors, how about one a toyota estima?. If i was looking for a large reliable petrol engined MPV at that sort of budget, i'd be looking seriously at one of these. This is the 7 seat version which has 2 captains chairs in the middle row (check out picture 13, does that look comfy or what?!), but you also get an 8 seater.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20180228414...1
Or this honda elysion, also with a non black interior,
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20170617653...1
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It's only the 1.6 THP unit you need to avoid. The NA 1.8 and 2.0 engines are OK - albeit thirsty. The 2.0 16V diesel is OK, but does carry a premium. Look also at the C4 Grand Picasso as it is identical to the 5008 except for the wheel and instruments. There aren't many petrol ones about, however! Don't buy a 1.6 diesel at this price point as it will be the earlier 16V troublesome unit.
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Thanks for Estima suggestion, a good one, just too boring to drive. I'd rather have a Berlingo Multispace.
Sorry, don't like C4 Picasso, brother has one, utterly reliable apart from the awful auto his has.
I beive 5008 is only available as a 1.6 petrol. I won't buy the diesel of doom 1.6, been warned off enough times by SLO26. Didn't realise there was a 2.0HDi. Is that the Peugeot engine that was in the 406?
I've just looked at usedcarexpert and umm.............cost replacing ABS on S-Max would be 1200 - 1500 and there can be fault with elec windows. Had all four windows fail on my Octavia which is one reason why I'm extremely reluctant to buy another VAG car ever again. I know the Smax isn't VW but might have to write it off. Why can't manufacturers make cars properly?
Edited by Trilogy. on 10/03/2018 at 12:32
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“Why can't manufacturers make cars properly?”
Combination of punters demanding ever greater numbers of gadgets and governments insisting on ever reducing emissions and fuel consumption. Cars are thus vastly more complex today than they were in the 90’s when simple mechanicals meant cars could be cost effective to a greater age.Today buying many modern cars beyond 6-7yrs old is a big risk with even smaller super mini diesels at risk of life ending expense at any moment.
On the subject of the S-Max my neighbour has a 2007 2.0 TDCi and it’s cost a fortune in recent years in repairs. £1,200 Clutch and DMF for example. The last clutch I replaced in a car was a simple petrol driven hatchback, a 1.4 Peugeot 306 and it cost me £250 fitted. If the high pressure fuel pump fails on the S-Max it’ll be another four figure expense too. I just wouldn’t touch a diesel on a limited budget even though the PSA 2.0 is fundamentally a sound design. It’s basically a 16v version of the older HDi from the 406 but from listening to the mechanics at my garage (who maintain most of the local taxis) it’s nowhere near as robust. Far superior to the 1.6 diesel which they would tell you to avoid like the plague.
Thinking of older cars I fondly remember flogging back in the day with little to no fear of trouble that I wish they still made examples of today. Most fleet cars were basic and straightforward to keep costs down and repairs simple.
Mk III Cavalier. Simple single ohc petrol motors never went wrong, had hardly any electronics to go haywire and even the turbo diesels were nearly impossible to kill with a bombproof 1.7 Isuzu motor that could do half a million miles no sweat. Today’s Insignia is usually uneconomic to take past 100k with their Fiat diesel motors prone to 1001 problems never mind the shonkey electronics due to gadget overkill.
Nissan Bluebird. Dull as dull gets but again fit for 500k or more. Never had one back even the 1800 ZX Turbos we regularly seen. Built on simple tried and tested running gear with no frills. Sadly today’s Nissan’s are bin worthy at a fraction of the age and mileage.
Toyota Carina E. No great shakes to drive but again nothing ever went wrong.
Volvo 240/740/940/850. Tanks built to last beyond WW3. Great big simple estates with everything you needed and no useless rubbish you didn’t. This died the moment Volvo started loading their cars with gadgets and started using PSA motors such as the now notorious 1.6 diesel of doom.
1987-1991 and 1991-1996 also 1996-2002 Mitsubishi Galant. Never once had an issue with any of these. They were built far better than BM 3 series but import restrictions meant high prices and few people who knew how good they were. V6’s were smooth and sweet. Last model estate was a brilliant workhorse but diesel was dominating that market by then and Mitsubishi never built one.
Merc 190 and E class 123series/124 series. Hewn from granite, utterly basic in most cases but built to last forever if looked after. Tidy examples are worth strong money today especially estates. Always fancied a 124 series 300D Estate. Gutless in the extreme but low revving truck like engine would hit a million miles of cared for.
There’s loads of others but manufacturers don’t seem to believe there’s a market for simple cars these days while I believe there is and Dacia are proving that not everyone cares about image or toys. People would buy a more basic low performance version of an E class or a Volvo Estate, Skoda could fill this void but even they fill the Superb with buttons aplenty. Every example I see has fat alloys and usually a DSG box along with every toy you can think of.
I’m going back to basics with my next motor. If I can find it. I’m doing far less mileage now so economy isn’t important anymore. I’m sick of finding scuffs and scrapes on the CRV which was an expensive bit of kit and I hate handing over a fortune to service it especially when my local main dealers customer service is utter garbage.
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I’m going back to basics with my next motor. If I can find it. I’m doing far less mileage now so economy isn’t important anymore. I’m sick of finding scuffs and scrapes on the CRV which was an expensive bit of kit and I hate handing over a fortune to service it especially when my local main dealers customer service is utter garbage.
If you go back to bangernomics, I'll be interested in hearing about your excursions, as the beauty is being able to swap cars occasionally for pocket money and try something different. I think it's in your blood anyway :-)
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“If you go back to bangernomics, I'll be interested in hearing about your excursions, as the beauty is being able to swap cars occasionally for pocket money and try something different. I think it's in your blood anyway :-)”
Spent many a year enjoying beating the system with loads of old motors providing reliable service. In fact most of them were more reliable than the new or nearly new cars I’ve owned or had as company cars. I hate the thought of losing money on motors. Gaffer isn’t happy at losing her big yummy mummy mobile but until she’s buying we’re going back to basics.
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I can greatly empathise with your sentiments SLO...I'm old enough..(and more!) to remember the type of cars you mention..particularly the Volvos'..I had the 260, the 760 and the V7 (pre-2000) ..I missed out on the 850..but they all were reliable, sturdy, no-nonsense motors..and if I could find "the one" then it's a marque I'd go back to.
Before I succumbed to my current Toyota Estima (which is lovely I confess) I nearly bought a 1999 (on the T) S70...rarer but not as useful as the V70 of course..100k miles, pretty immaculate, good history and with that lovely 2.4 5 cylnder engine of course..my hesitaiton was that it was the 10 and not the 20 valve model.
Would have had that around the £2k mark at the time...always wondered if I should have ...and gone back to basics.!
Edited by nellyjak on 10/03/2018 at 14:43
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I enjoyed a very pleasant jaunt round France, Switzerland and Italy in a £300 Ford Mondeo a few years back. It was an absolute pleasure to drive on those twisting Alpine roads with feelsome hydraulic steering (not this numb electric set up we get today), slick gearchange and with less weight the 1800 16v motor pulled it along with enthusiasm yet still delivered more than 35mpg despite much foot to the floor driving.
It was a reminder of how good cars were before they got bogged down with all the current legislation. Yes today’s Mondeo is safer and likely to resist rot far better but it’s bland to look at, far too bulky and dull to drive in comparison. I sold it for what I paid when we got back and it was last seen heading to Venice on another European tour. Cheap cars are great fun.
Edited by SLO76 on 10/03/2018 at 15:13
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<< “Why can't manufacturers make cars properly?”
Combination of punters demanding ever greater numbers of gadgets and governments insisting on ever reducing emissions and fuel consumption. >>
SLO, do you really believe punters demand lots of new gadgets, and the makers then go away and design some? That is a chicken-and-egg situation, and I suspect the gadget ideas come from inside the design studios. Equally I'm not sure that the 21st-century outbreak of car obesity was demanded by punters. The makers were all trying to get people to buy 4x4 and SUV lookalikes - poor-man's Range Rovers. Now we can hardly move for the d*m' things.
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“SLO, do you really believe punters demand lots of new gadgets, and the makers then go away and design some? That is a chicken-and-egg situation, and I suspect the gadget ideas come from inside the design studios. Equally I'm not sure that the 21st-century outbreak of car obesity was demanded by punters. The makers were all trying to get people to buy 4x4 and SUV lookalikes - poor-man's Range Rovers. Now we can hardly move for the d*m' things.”
Could be. Manufacturers started loading equipment into cars in the 00’s but in the 80’s and 90’s the bulk of us were quite happy with our basic Cavalier/Escort/Sierra L’s. I prefer a more basic motor and more often than not it’s the lower spec models with thinner tyres and the sweeter but smaller engines that are the best in the range.
Thinking of the likes of the Mk I Ford Focus and the 1.6 Zetec was the sweet spot, thus its popularity. Cavalier 2.0 GLi was a better model than it’s dearer cousins, Mk I Mondeo 1.8 LX was a far better car than anything further up the price list. There’s loads of examples of cars that are either not enhanced or simply ruined by higher spec, more gubbins and fat wheels.
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Thanks for Estima suggestion, a good one, just too boring to drive. I'd rather have a Berlingo Multispace.
Boring.?....not if you get the 3 litre V6.!..trust me.!..I've got one..lol
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SLO, thanks for your feedback. S-Max diesel or no disel looks now off the short list. Interesting to see your MK1 Focus comments tally with my experience of them. My 1.8 Zetec has been brilliant, just not really big enough any more and being a Zetec the ride isn't wonderful.
My E300D estate is surprisingly swift from standstill, superb ride, nimble with brilliant turning circle and great fun on country roads. Now falling out of favour, so more to choose from at the moment, although of course not common. Just be aware of rust in wings, sills and bottom of rear side windows, and flaring auto transmission. Buying guide on here was written by a W124 expert. Have a soft sport for Hyundai Sonata, shame not made as an estate. Like boxy, eegant Bluebird, such a simple design. A few good ones left at bargain prices. Like Carina E estate and first Avensis estate. Might even buy one of the latter or even a Previa and just chuck away some of the seats rather than store them. Still wary of Mazda 6 costs if go wrong. Drove a 98 Mondeo hatch when parents were looking for a car in 2002 and was very impressed by sharp steering and general dynamics.
The appeal of a more modern, elctronic gadget laden vehicle is how much safer it is to be in one than cars from the 80s and 90s.
nellyjak, I can see where you're coming from. I used to know of a woman who had an immaculate white one converted to LPG.
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