Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines

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Fri 11 Jan 2019 20:01
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - sammy1

Interesting letter to HJ agony column today it would seem he has reports of this happening.

As spark plugs are pretty robust have members heard of this happening to other marks and why peculiar to the 2008? I have had a plug misfiring but never breaking up!

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Fri 11 Jan 2019 21:43
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - focussed

Yes I have experienced it on an MGB GT in the 70's which I did a lot of tuning work on to stage 3. The plugs were Champion N9Y's and used to split the insulators lengthways.

(That's the insulator inside the plug that shrouds the centre electrode, not the insulator you can see when the plug is in the engine)

Caused by distributor problems over advancing the ignition timing, detonation etc - rebuilt the distributor - different advance curve etc.

Edited by focussed on 11/01/2019 at 21:58

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Sat 12 Jan 2019 11:50
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - craig-pd130

Plugs breaking up is very rare but it can happen - as said above, the ceramic around the centre electrode can crack, or the ground electrode can fall off if the weld fails. Either problem can damage pistons, gouge bores, etc.

The problem is made worse by the increasing use of 10mm thread plugs in modern cars (very common with smaller-displacement, 4-valve-per-cylinder engines): the tightening torque for these is much lower than larger plugs, which means:

1) it's easier to strip the threads in the cylinder head if the person fitting the plug is ham-fisted

2) it's also easier to put excessive stress on the metal body of the spark plug, which in turn can cause the ceramic to crack

The tightening torque with a brand-new 10mm plug (like those in Vx Corsa petrol, or many modern motorbikes) is just 10 to 12nm, which is really not very much at all. Or if you don't have a torque wrench, 180 degrees extra after finger-tight when the plug is brand-new, and just 30 degrees extra after finger-tight when re-using.

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Wed 16 Jan 2019 09:59
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - Honestjohn

It's the first problem we've had reported with the otherwise excellent PureTech 1.2 engines. Have to report it.

HJ

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Wed 16 Jan 2019 10:33
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - John F

Good to hear it's a one off. The Pug 2008 1.2 EAT6 still remains at the top of our choice list (Seat Arona a close second) to replace our (t)rusty 18yr old Focus - depending upon its MoT result in March!

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Wed 16 Jan 2019 11:09
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - madf

I met the owner of a new Mark 3 Jaguar E Type V12 which had a Champion spark plug fail in 1976. Holed the piston. Warranty job. New engine.

Edited by madf on 16/01/2019 at 11:09

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Wed 16 Jan 2019 12:07
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - Honestjohn

A reader has just let us know that there appears to be a quiet TSB on spark plugs in PureTech engines: Just changed the plugs on my wife’s Cactus at 22,000 miles. I did it because I had to replace a coil pack that had gone faulty and thought I would do it at the same time. The plugs were totally finished!

I have now seen on a Citroen forum that there is supposed to be a silent recall TSB to replace them on all Puretech engines.
Are you aware of it?
If so do you know the number so I can quote it to the Citroen garage? They deny there is such a TSB.

HJ
David Birch

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Thu 17 Jan 2019 00:32
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - SteveLee

I always use NGK plugs - quite simply they are the best, I've seen dozens of Champions Bocshes etc fail over the years, never known an NGK plug to physically fail.

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Thu 17 Jan 2019 20:43
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - focussed

I always use NGK plugs - quite simply they are the best, I've seen dozens of Champions Bocshes etc fail over the years, never known an NGK plug to physically fail.

Yes - I'll second that, I have never seen an NGK spark plug fail in service. In the seventies I don't recall NGK being widely available.

And that goes for NGK glow plugs too.

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Thu 17 Jan 2019 20:46
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - gordonbennet

I always use NGK plugs - quite simply they are the best, I've seen dozens of Champions Bocshes etc fail over the years, never known an NGK plug to physically fail.

Yes - I'll second that, I have never seen an NGK spark plug fail in service. In the seventies I don't recall NGK being widely available.

And that goes for NGK glow plugs too.

Thirded, fit and forget spark plugs.

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Fri 18 Jan 2019 10:46
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - madf

I always use NGK plugs - quite simply they are the best, I've seen dozens of Champions Bocshes etc fail over the years, never known an NGK plug to physically fail.

Yes - I'll second that, I have never seen an NGK spark plug fail in service. In the seventies I don't recall NGK being widely available.

And that goes for NGK glow plugs too.

Thirded, fit and forget spark plugs.

NGK's iridium plugs are rated for 70k miles on the Honda Jazz. I have seen US pictures of these plugs with over 100k on them - and still serviceable...Bosch ones might be OK. I would not want cheap/unbranded or Champion ones..(Jazz spark plug change involves lots of dismantling)

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Fri 18 Jan 2019 11:24
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - craig-pd130

NGK's iridium plugs are rated for 70k miles on the Honda Jazz. I have seen US pictures of these plugs with over 100k on them - and still serviceable...Bosch ones might be OK.

I've used NGK Iridiums in my bikes for years, they simply never wear or need regapping, despite being used in a high-revving motor that's in a much higher state of tune than a typical car engine. As my bike uses a plug type that's shared across lots of bikes from different makers, they're only a fiver each too.

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Fri 18 Jan 2019 11:46
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - gordonbennet

NGK's iridium plugs are rated for 70k miles on the Honda Jazz.

I've used NGK Iridiums in my bikes for years,

Those Iridiums are also the recognised go to spark plug for LPG conversions, and you do not want to be changing the things on Subarus frequently, even more so if LPG converted, a horrid job.

Edited by gordonbennet on 18/01/2019 at 11:47

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Fri 18 Jan 2019 12:03
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - craig-pd130

Those Iridiums are also the recognised go to spark plug for LPG conversions, and you do not want to be changing the things on Subarus frequently, even more so if LPG converted, a horrid job.

Indeed not. I once helped a friend do a minor service on his Impreza Turbo. A LOT of things are in the way.

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Thu 17 Jan 2019 09:45
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - craig-pd130

A reader has just let us know that there appears to be a quiet TSB on spark plugs in PureTech engines: Just changed the plugs on my wife’s Cactus at 22,000 miles. I did it because I had to replace a coil pack that had gone faulty and thought I would do it at the same time. The plugs were totally finished!

What plugs are they please? Are they single ground electrode or multi-ground electrode? What was wrong with the plugs from your Cactus, had the electrodes eroded/worn away?

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Thu 17 Jan 2019 12:35
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - landmarked

Can't find any hard evidence of a recall but there are many, many reports of Puretech spark plugs failing on French forums (search "puretech casse bougie", Chrome will make the translation)

Some are describing bits of ceramic falling into the cylinder and causing major damage.

In one case Peugeot offered to pay 80% of the repair on a car 9 months out of warranty.

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Thu 17 Jan 2019 13:53
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - craig-pd130

Can't find any hard evidence of a recall but there are many, many reports of Puretech spark plugs failing on French forums (search "puretech casse bougie", Chrome will make the translation)

Some are describing bits of ceramic falling into the cylinder and causing major damage.

I wonder what brand of spark plugs are fitted as original equipment? A quick search shows the PureTech engines take a fairly standard 12mm, single-electrode Iridium plug, available from several manufacturers (Bosch, NGK, Denso etc).

Either it's a duff batch of plugs from a specific supplier, or the ignition / fuelling / boost mapping on these engines is wrong and allowing detonation under certain conditions, which is damaging the porcelain / melting electrodes etc.

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Thu 17 Jan 2019 15:46
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - landmarked

Completely anecdotally, some owners are talking about Bosch, e.g. model ZR5SPP3320

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Fri 18 Jan 2019 12:41
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - focussed

Or - "Knock knock, who's there?

It's me - the knock sensor calling! Can't you hear me?

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Thu 17 Jan 2019 11:36
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - John F

I met the owner of a new Mark 3 Jaguar E Type V12 which had a Champion spark plug fail in 1976. Holed the piston. Warranty job. New engine.

Might have been wrong plug(s)? Happened years ago to a friend who put slightly too long plugs in his Renault Gordini - punched a hole in one of the cylinders, but curiously (and thankfully) not all four.

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Thu 17 Jan 2019 20:02
Puegeot 2008 - Disintegrating spark plug destroying engines - andyp

I had a 208 EAT6 which started to tick over unevenly when it was hot particularly if left in drive. The problem started when it had covered about 18000 miles and as it would not do it all of the time and did not put the eml on there was not a lot of point in putting it into the dealer. I reported it when it went in for its second service and the spark plugs were changed but it made no difference. Around the same time as the idling problem started it would also intermittently stutter/misfire when it changed up from 5th to 6th at 70ish mph. There are several reports of this problem about on the internet and there is talk of problems with valve stick (it only seems to affect the 110 & 130 Puretech) and in some cases engines being replaced. A colleague had a 2008 1.2 130 with a manual gearbox and this developed the same issue. A Peugeot tech who posts on another internet forum said that there are problems developing with this engine and that Peugeot are trying to keep a lid on it .Whether or not this is true I do not know . Incidentally I part exchanged the 208 for a new 308 1.5 diesel EAT8 which I am very happy with - so far anyway :-)

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