Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - paul45

Hello all,

Here's what happened. On a local high street I was following another vehicle and the left hand side of the road was blocked by a Tesco delivery lorry, which was double parked. At the point I was committed to going into the gap, (I was following another vehicle who had done the same), another vehicle turned left and filled the gap I was about to enter. So, being now on the wrong side of the road, and with another vehicle approaching me, I stopped. I selected reverse to create the space to allow this vehicle to pass, and looked over my left shoulder to see if any car was behind me. My car moved back around 3 feet, and at that point I bumped into a pedestrian who had crossed the road on a zebra crossing behind me. I had not seen her over my left shoulder and the collision happened as I took my foot off the brake and onto the accelerator (it's automatic).

Goes without saying that I was horrified at what I'd done, the young lady (in her early 20's) was lying on the road, but after some time, the only external injury seemed to be a grazed (no blood) right elbow. Obviously she was shocked at what had happened, but she rose to her feet after a few minutes, and one of the local shops provided her with a chair to sit on, I got back in the car, reversed it back a few more yards so I wasn't blocking the road anymore. The Tesco lorry was still double parked at this time.

After a few minutes being sat down, the lady then complained her head and back were hurting, I offered to call an ambulance (I had done this at the point directly after the impact when she was on the road) but she said she didn't need one. I then offered to take her to the local A&E after she complained of having head pain so she could be diagnosed by a professional. She didn't want this either and instead called her stepmother, who lived locally, and she arrived within a few minutes. At this point she was in tears, unsurprisingly, and was complaining that she'd hit her head on the car, and her back was hurting. After around 5 minutes she again rose to her feet, I had in the meantime provided her with all my personal details via text to her phone. She then left with her stepmother and walked down the street to her car which was parked around 50 yards away.

I returned to my vehicle, found somewhere else to park safely and returned to take some photos of the area. I checked the rear of my car, and the only evidence of the impact was where dust had been removed from the rear bumper.

We then returned home, I immediately contacted my insurer, informed them of what had happened and I downloaded the relevant footage from my forward facing dash-cam. This shows that the car moved back around 3 feet as I previously explained. I have since uploaded this to my insurers website at their request. It was only when we got home (and when I called the insurer) that I realised I had not taken her personal details, name, address etc., so I texted her on the number she gave me. Now, over 48 hours later, I still have not received her details, despite 2 more texts.

I believe that she will probably contact a solicitor, which of course she is entitled to do, given it was an accident that was not her fault. My wife is convinced that she will try and sue for more injuries than were visible, but for me, if she's been to hospital and been examined, all I hope is that it was only the grazed elbow she's suffered.

In mitigation, it's the only the second accident I've ever had since I passed my driving test in 1982, and thankfully the first time, and hopefully the last, I've ever made contact with a pedestrian.

I'm interested if anyone has been in a similar position (should I have contacted the police at the time?), the insurer stated that it was a "my fault" accident so my premiums would be affected, which of course is understandable. I'm expecting a solicitors letter through the post in the next few days, which I guess I should forward onto my insurer. Is there anything else I can do / should think about?

Any views gladly accepted - apologies for the very long post.

P

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - Falkirk Bairn

You are mostly responsible BUT Tesco van double parked is a contributor IMHO.

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - gordonbennet

Reportable to police within 24 hours i would have thought as injury resulted, i would have called them from the scene.

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - Middleman

Reportable to police within 24 hours i would have thought as injury resulted, i would have called them from the scene.

Indeed. Where personal injury results, unless a Certificate of Insurance is produced at the time either to a constable or to some other person having reasonable grounds to require it the driver must report the matter and produce such a certificate. He must do so either to a constable or at a police station. This must be as soon as practicable and in any case within 24 hours of the incident. Failure to do so is an offence and is one of the few motoring offences which can attract custody. (Section 170 Road Traffic Act).

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - paul45

Many thanks all, I have now informed the police as there was a potential injury. My insurance company didn't let me know I should have done this, which I thought would have been routine for them. Still my responsibility ultimately, so I need to show my insurance details at a local police station when i return from working away this weekend. Still not heard from the lady injured despite a call and two more texts.

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - Gerry Sanderson

Have you considered visiting locus of incident on foot and made enquiries of premises overlooking to see if any have CCTV. ? Could show she walked into you whilst moving?

dvd

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - Bromptonaut

Have you considered visiting locus of incident on foot and made enquiries of premises overlooking to see if any have CCTV. ? Could show she walked into you whilst moving?

dvd

Not sure 'walked into you while moving' is going to help - she was on a zebra crossing so has priority.

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - Lee Power

No one using a zebra crossing is going to expect a car to REVERSE in to them while there usng the crossing.

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - SteVee

Was the Tesco lorry or anyone else parked on the zig zag markings of the zabra crossing?

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - paul45

Agreed that no-one would expect someone to reverse back onto the zebra crossing, and although the Tesco lorry was parked on zig-zag lines, it was on the opposite side of the road.

The police called me back yesterday stating that they had received a report from this lady, that tied up with my registration, so once again, thanks for the advice. The lady finally got in touch, said she was still aching and had some pains, so I'm now awaiting the solicitors letter. I also checked my insurance and it does not have legal cover, so I'm now wondering what the process is, and am I covered, I'l call LV later and find out.

Ultimately I'm to blame, I didn't see her when I glanced over my left shoulder to reverse as she was in the blind spot, no excuses, but as i stated in the original post the distance i travelled in reverse was around 3 ft.

As for a locus of cameras, the high street in question does have CCTV, I suppose I could request this based on the alleged severity of the injuries she claims for. My dash cam has also captured her walking away from the scene as well.

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - alan1302

Ultimately I'm to blame, I didn't see her when I glanced over my left shoulder to reverse as she was in the blind spot, no excuses, but as i stated in the original post the distance i travelled in reverse was around 3 ft.

What does the distance covered have to do with anything?

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - paul45

Ultimately I'm to blame, I didn't see her when I glanced over my left shoulder to reverse as she was in the blind spot, no excuses, but as i stated in the original post the distance i travelled in reverse was around 3 ft.

What does the distance covered have to do with anything?

Speed of vehicle, relevant to severity of impact, low distance covered, therefore low speed

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - gordonbennet
As for a locus of cameras, the high street in question does have CCTV, I suppose I could request this based on the alleged severity of the injuries she claims for. My dash cam has also captured her walking away from the scene as well.

I'd stop worrying about this aspect if i were you, you've reported it to the old bill, even if you were late doing so they seem to be ok with you, it's now between the injured party and your insurer.

Whatever the circs of the tesco lorry, you physically touched a pedestrian on a crossing, so basically you are at fault.

If the injured person tries to milk the claim, then thats for the insurer to deal with, no doubt they have experience of injury claims and at what cost point to start more in depth investigations.

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - sammy1

What does the distance covered have to do with anything

A lot I would suggest, proof hardly moving so relevant to any subsequent injuries sustained.

Accidents happen and we can all be a victim of circumstance, the Tesco lorry being in the wrong place.

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - concrete

I think GB is right about most of this difficult situation. It is a very unfortunate incident with lots of contributory factors. However ultimately it comes down to hitting a pedestrian on a road crossing. Given the nature of the incident and apparent lack of serious injury I expect this to be settled by your insurer for a modest sum. You will have lost your no claims and have an increase in premium to contend with. If that is the extent of your liability in this you are quite lucky. It could have been much worse. Hitting an elderly person or a child for example. It may be, or maybe not, that at this moment this young ladies friends are urging her to exaggerate the claim for injury. This is sometimes how things are in this world. Hope it all works out well for you and her.

Cheers Concrete

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - paul45

So far I've not heard anything, I did go to the police station to hand over my documents, but that was a wasted journey, given they had started the process of "evidence and CCTV gathering", and we don't have a space on that form to tick off that you've shown us the documents. Another trip will be required I think.

But as you say concrete, it could have been so much worse, even at the very low impact speed, so I consider myself very lucky.

As a number of people have said, I'll leave it with the insurance company to deal with.

My insurance renewal came up, it's a 2 car policy with SWMBO's and it had "Accident August 2019" on my details, but nothing else. I have a protected NCB, and the cost was around £15 more than last year. Felt like a lot of hassle to try and change whilst "mid claim" so I have stuck with my current insurer.

I'll update with more, once I hear from either the police, I suppose this might be driving without due care, or the insurance company, so I'l have to wait.

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - daveyjp
You are now potentially in the hands of our legal system where the approach taken by local police and CPS can be very unpredictable.

All you can do is wait and see what the force and CPS decide.
Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - concrete
Thanks for the update paul. I don't think it is likely you will face prosecution for this unfortunate incident. The insurance will decide how to deal with this, usually a pay off in full and final settlement. Plod has other fish to fry I am sure. I am with LV and have renewed for the past two years after checking prices so you are pretty much in the hands of a large and resourceful company. At least your premiums will not increase too much. Glad the lesson in watchfulness did not cost anyone any serious injury. Good luck.
Concrete

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - paul45

Hi All, - updated today after a phone call from the a local police constable.

They want to interview me under caution for the offence of careless driving in a few weeks time. The PC was very pleasant and asked if I wanted a solicitor, which I said I did.

So, they are pursuing a prosecution here by the looks of it. Having never been in this situation before, I'm not sure whether I have a defence at all, interested to hear what others might thinking / would do under similar circumstances.

thanks P

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - concrete

Hello Paul, I am wondering what the police have in the form of evidence. If there was no police presence at the incident presumably the injured party has made a complaint and they are relying on her testimony and any other witnesses that may have observed the incident. I suppose you were careless in your actions at the time, as you have admitted. A solicitor is a good idea. It will cost you but he/she may determine what the police have and either counter it or advise you to accept it. The CPS must think they have a case and are giving it a go. Check with your insurance company to ask if a claim has been made. Don't tell them yet about your interview, it may come to nothing, but if it does you will have to inform them as it is a material fact. Good luck. Cheers Concrete

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - daveyjp

All down to how good the solicitor is at motoring laws and procedures and then how your case is put to the Magistrates.

This is worth a read:

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/careless-driving-drive-without-due-care-and-attention-revised-2017/

as it gives you an idea of the sentences which can be given.

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - RichardW

Nothing to do with CPS yet - Police will be putting file together to pass to CPS for decision on whether on to prosecute.

You need to discuss with your brief before the interview - you don't want to say something that makes it 'worse'.

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - paul45

Thanks All,

Answers to questions:

1. Evidence - police stated that they would be gathering CCTV info, this was a week or so after the initial incident at the beginning of August, so my assumption is that they had now reviewed this and thus they want to speak to me.

2. I will call the insurance company and see what if anything they know about a claim, but for the time being, not disclosing that I have an interview.

3. The PC stated that I could have the duty solicitor, but it sounds like it would be worth engaging a motor law specialist, however I assume that would be after the initial interview

4. Vitally important that I speak to my duty solicitor first then, prior to the recorded interview

5. I'm going to bring all the dash-cam footage / photos I have to share with my duty solicitor, and at some point (assuming the CPS wants to prosecute), with my other yet to be engaged specialist solicitor

Much obliged to all for advice,

P

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - daveyjp
3. You can use duty, but if you can sort your own from day 1.
Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - focussed
3. You can use duty, but if you can sort your own from day 1.

Agreed - I wouldn't go into that interview under caution, because that's what it'll be, without a proper solicitor, if you can get one experienced in motoring cases, so much the better.

They'll get you to talk and incriminate yourself if you are not careful.

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - gordonbennet
3. You can use duty, but if you can sort your own from day 1.

Agreed - I wouldn't go into that interview under caution, because that's what it'll be, without a proper solicitor, if you can get one experienced in motoring cases, so much the better.

They'll get you to talk and incriminate yourself if you are not careful.

Agreed, less said the better.

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - concrete

Thinking about this there are a couple of points that spring to mind.

Firstly, through your solicitor ask to see the CCTV footage before you are interviewed under caution. If they refuse ask them if they will show it after your caution. No to the first and yes to the second means they think they have something. In which case no matter what you say will change their minds if they think they can get the CPS to prosecute you. I would insist upon seeing the CCTV footage prior to answering any questions. Then I would be tempted to not answer any but say you will submit a comprehensive written statement after consulting your solicitor. Least said soonest mended is a good motto.

Secondly, if the injured party has made a claim, I would bring that up. It may just cast doubt on her motives for complaining, assuming they are relying on her evidence. CCTV should show the extent of any injury caused and may give you some wiggle room.

Good luck

Concrete

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - 30 yr's a Professional Driver

Hello,

I am assuming after all this you have learnt to actually turn around and look behind when reversing and not just glance over your shoulder, You might also consider that as an adult she is capable of taking a few knocks, had that been a child you may very well be facing a charge of causing death by dangerous driving had that child hit their head on the pavement.

So forget about your own cctv, if it was in the front of the car it wont help you, high street cameras are usually operated by either private people or the council so you will have a job getting hold of it, also the police do not have to share squat with you or your solicitor until you have been formerly charged.

Where the police have a case is simply that this pedestrian was on a crossing, in the eyes of the law there is NO EXCUSE OR REASON for doing this, also as already stated you where travelling the wrong way in reverse so that is also against you. The fact that you have admitted wrong is in your favour, but, they are holding all the aces and you only have a pair of 2's, if you make them work for it then it will end badly for you. If they have invited you to go in for an interview I suggest you do it sooner rather then later and with a solicitor, if they have to issue a warrant for your arrest then you have already lost

Injuries to a pedestrian are not always obvious, esp internal had injuries, if she refused to go to the hospital and could walk away then I would not read too much into that, if I read your article right she had to try 3 times before she could, so that in itself tells me she had injuries that you could not see.

My advice, get the interview under caution done with a solicitor, tell the truth sticking to the facts in such a way that they feel you are not trying to hide from what happened, and hope that all you get is a fine and points.

Worst case scenario is they could get you sit an assessment test for 2 hours, or get you to resit your test from the beginning, that means theory, hazard perception and the practical.

The insurance company will wait until the case has been heard before they will act on what ever the courts decide.

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - 30 yr's a Professional Driver

ps I would not bring up that lorry too much, if that vehicle reduced your visibility on this manoeuvre then they will ask why you did it in the first place and did not find a safer way to do it, for example by turning around further along and coming back the other way, you have admitted the other vehicle made it difficult but you did it anyway. Also distance makes no difference as someone else has suggested.

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - focussed

I had the "treatment" once from Bedfordshire traffic ( known even then by their own colleagues as the "Black Rats").

I was trying to get to the office by J5 M1 but the M1 was blocked and stopped at J13 where I diverted onto B roads to try to get around the blockage.At an overpass with no access slips a bit further down the motorway near Ridgemont I stopped, pulled onto a wide grass verge to get off the road, got out of the driver's door intending to cross over on foot to look south down the motorway to see what was going on. As I got out of the car two things happened simultaneously - a fireman in full gear, white helmet (Station officer?), breathing apparatus etc ( it turned out it was a chemical incident) emerged from the hedge on the south side of the road having climbed up from the motorway, and a Dolomite Sprint at full chat came around the long bend across the overpass, saw the fireman and panic braked, locked it all up, slid sideways hit the kerb and rolled it onto it's side a bit further down the road. I'm stood on the kerb thinking " Sh!t - I'm glad I didn't get to crossing the road"

The two blokes climbed out of the Sprint unhurt - they were test drivers from BL Abingdon and then the black rats turned up.

The Dolomite driver had obviously told them a good tale because the plod tried to get me to admit that I had been involved. I just told them what happened but they had me follow them to Ampthill police station.for an interview.

They kept asking silly questions like "why was this mysterious fireman- climbing through the hedge?"

And I'm saying "How should I know, why don't you find him and ask him?"

After a while they could see that I just kept telling the same story - (the truth) - but they kept looking all round the firm's car for damage, there wasn't any.

So they let me carry on with my day after saying "You need to be more careful"

I let that one go as I was glad to get away from two of Bedfordshire's finest!

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - paul45

Answers to latest posts:

1. The police and I agreed a mutual time for the interview, so no chance of an arrest I'd suggest, I will call the officer in question when he's back from his holiday next weekend and re-confirm our appointment, as a matter of courtesy.

2. I appreciate it's impossible to ascertain internal injuries at the scene, but having been bumped into once in a supermarket car park at the same estimated speed, it seems unlikely that any real injury beyond bruising would have occurred. All of which is a moot point as I'm not medically qualified. The lady in question did state a few days later she was still aching, so a major injury seems to have been unlikely.

3. The potential differences in an injury to a elderly person / child could have been much worse, but that was not the case, so, does the law prosecute against what could have been or what was?

4. I have always admitted that this was my fault, I looked over my left shoulder, but, I must not have seen her as she passed into my blind spot, so point taken, a look over the right shoulder would have potentially prevented this.

5. The circumstances leading up to this accident, whilst not an excuse must be contributory, yes, my decision to go into a gap - following another vehicle. However, living on a narrow single file lane anyway, I'm used to meeting cars in gaps and reversing out of the way, so difficult to say this was the wrong move to enter the gap. Should the car turning left into my path have reversed back given I was in the gap anyway? Someone had to give way, and as I said I am used to doing this on the lane where I live, so that's what I did.

6. As for the interview, I will listen to the duty solicitor's advice first, and decide the best course of action then. It's not in my nature to not admit fault, but maintaining a reasonable defence is.

7. I'll still call the insurance company and see what they say.

Thanks for all thoughts / advice so far.

Cheers P

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - Theophilus

Thanks for the update .. wish you well for the interview.

Audi - Reversed into pedestrian - any thoughts - FP

"...wish you well for the interview."

Hear, hear. And I want to add that Paul has, throughout the whole discussion, remained calm and reasonable. It's a great pity he finds himself in this situation; there but for the grace of God... etc.

But please be very careful what you say.

An anecdote: I accompanied one of my stepsons to magistrates' court when he was summonsed for fraudulent use of a train card on multiple occasions. (It was an inadvertent series of offences; he should probably have refused to answer the ticket inspector when he was asked, "Have you done this before?" It turned out that, for some reason, the ticket inspector's evidence seemed less than solid, from what I gathered, particularly as there was only one specific date that could be proved.)

The prosecution solicitor interviewed us prior to the case. In effect, he was offering a deal - to prosecute the lad for only some of the offences. The lad was all up for admitting to that immediately and getting it over and done with. I intervened (which displeased the solicitor mightily, but I told him it was important there was clarity) to ask the lad to repeat what he was agreeing to. Turned out he was so panicked he hadn't listened properly.

I asked the lawyer what would happen if the lad didn't accept that. With a very poor grace, he said, "Then we'll charge him with just the one offence." He pleaded guilty and had a fine probably smaller than the alternative scenario.

I'm sure you can see the moral.

Edited by FP on 16/10/2019 at 13:49