Honda tops reliability survey

Honest John Back Room » Motoring discussion
View Threaded
Fri 26 Jul 2013 09:33
Honda tops reliability survey - groaver

Pinch of salt or more than a grain of truth?

tinyurl.com/pulqj7g

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 26 Jul 2013 11:21
Honda tops reliability survey - Falkirk Bairn

You cannot publish figures based on a selection of cars insured by a company...........the sample of cars may not be representative of the cars on the road, the sample of owners insuring repairs may not be representative of car owners in general, the mileage covered may not be representative...........

an advert for a car repair insurer is about all that can be guaranteed as being true!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 26 Jul 2013 12:27
Honda tops reliability survey - Sulphur Man

I'm prepared to believe in a grain of truth, principally because several of these surveys are published each year and all paint a similar picture - Japanese & Korean manufacturers towards the top, European and 'American' manufacturers towards the bottom.

That said, surprisingy good result for Fiat. Even more suprising compared to Alfa, who share so much engineering.

Not bad for VW, but far worse for Audi.

There should be no raised eyebrows at LR close to bottom though.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 26 Jul 2013 17:49
Honda tops reliability survey - daveyK_UK
More evidence of Fiats improvements?
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 26 Jul 2013 20:37
Honda tops reliability survey - focussed

It's not exactly rocket science is it? If the manufacturer designs the thing properly in the first place, and quality controls the component makers properly to deliver quality stuff at the right price, it's going to be ok for much more time than it's not ok.

Instead of the cost accountants demanding that the components that you fit to the car that you are making are made out of cardboard and cheddar cheese to keep the price as low as possible and might just make it to the end of the 12 month warranty if you are lucky - you all know who you are don't you?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 26 Jul 2013 22:29
Honda tops reliability survey - wrangler_rover

It also helps, if knowing there is a chance of a problem, recalling all the cars likely to be affected and doing remedial work, this boosts customer confidence. All manufacturers suffer from problems, how they deal with the problems is the thing that matters. I would rather buy from a manufacturer who admits there is a possible problem and fixes it than one who denies all knowledge of a problem.

On the subject of warranties, most far eastern manufacturere offer long warranties as standard and if wnything goes wrong under warranty, they actually honour the warranty and fix it rather than making excuses that it isn't a warranty issue.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 26 Jul 2013 22:31
Honda tops reliability survey - Honestjohn

Instead of merely trotting out the Warranty Direct, 'What Car?' and Honda press releases, I explained what this was all about properly and did some analysys of the stats here: www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/miscellaneous/2013-07/bi.../ If you check out the 'Autocar' page on this, half the posters seem to think it was just another owner's survey. This was hard, factual information about what a warranty insurer has had to spend on cars out of manufacturer warranty that people have taken independent extended warranties on. So it's the real thing. It represents the average of what you would have had to spend if you had not taken out an extended warranty. Obviously as long as the cost of the warranty was less than these figures you would have been quids in. So you probably don't need an extended warranty on a Honda.

HJ

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 26 Jul 2013 23:22
Honda tops reliability survey - daveyK_UK

HJ - Your correct

This is far more useful when you understand the facts than the what car owners survey which is subjective

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 26 Jul 2013 23:39
Honda tops reliability survey - Sprice

Agreed on the subjectivity of some reliability surveys. A lot of it comes down to owners expectations which explains why Skoda, which uses VW mechanicals does so much better than VW and Audi in lots of surveys.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 27 Jul 2013 00:01
Honda tops reliability survey - brum

I take great objection to HJ claiming this is a real survey backed by hard facts. Its SPIN based on useless information and flawed survey methodology.

Warranty Direct sell aftermarket warranties and represent a tiny proportion of cars on the roads at the age in this so called survey. Its results are skewed in that some makes are far more likely, by demography of their owners, to be included as a statistic in this survey than others.

Statements that a few (predominantly privately owned well maintained) Hondas are reliable therfore all Hondas are reliable is just generalised poppycock.

Extended aftermarket warranties are notorious for not living up to their hype - lots of claims not honoured because of exclusions or limits or disputes about liability or other "force majeure" clauses. The type of customer who takes out such a warranty is likely either to be someone with a perceived problem car or in the case of Honda I would suggest an OAP who has their car serviced religously, does low mileage and probably wouldnt dream of claiming for a lot of minor issues. The typical Bentley customer taking such a warranty is likely to be a far more difficult customer.

"And at the bottom of the list largely due to the cost of claims are Porsche. LandRover and Bentley" - And whats the value of a list that cant even take into account that a Honda Jazz is a fraction of the price of a Bentley Continental?

Edited by brum on 27/07/2013 at 00:14

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 27 Jul 2013 08:44
Honda tops reliability survey - Oli rag

I'm a bit puzzled by this survey, the Honda HRV is listed in the top ten most reliable cars. It states the average sample age was 5.4 years old, yet, the HRV went out of production around 2006?

How old are the survey results?

Have they made a complete horlicks of it?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 27 Jul 2013 14:12
Honda tops reliability survey - Honestjohn

In response to brum, these are real stats based on the cold hard facts of what Warranty Direct has had to fork out on claims. So while the term 'Reliable' might not be totally appropriate, it is the term generally used to reflect the cost of faults and repairs. And if 'Honda' and 'Toyota' can improve their places in the list by being more generous with 'goodwill', then the listings are still of value because they show the likelihood (or not) of an owner without an extended warranty having to shell out on the car. We all know that some cars are so 'reliable' it's worth spending fortunes continually having them repaired.

HJ

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 27 Jul 2013 14:23
Honda tops reliability survey - galileo

I think Brum's point is that the statistics only apply to cars for which Warranty Direct policies have been taken out. As a percentage of the total car population this may be a) small b) a 'skewed' sample.

Notoriously difficult in surveys (or opinion polls) to ensure sample statistics are truly represantative.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 27 Jul 2013 14:24
Honda tops reliability survey - galileo

I think Brum's point is that the statistics only apply to cars for which Warranty Direct policies have been taken out. As a percentage of the total car population this may be a) small b) a 'skewed' sample.

Notoriously difficult in surveys (or opinion polls) to ensure sample statistics are truly representative. But having said that, I would personally pick a Honda/Toyota/Hyundai for reliability over most European makes, through personal experience and the recommendations of automotive engineers i know.

Edited by galileo on 27/07/2013 at 14:28

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 27 Jul 2013 17:59
Honda tops reliability survey - madf

Well Brum has obviously never bought a fleet of 20 odd LRovers as a frined's boss did. About a quarter had to be left at the dealer's premises for very expensive and lengthy rectification under warranty.. (He stopped buying them after that)..

As far as I can see - apart from the odd cars which most of us can never afford - the WD surveys mirror what happens in real life. If you ever own a Honda or Toyota from new, most people find the customer servcie (apart from one or two dealers ) far exceeds that of most other volume makers. And the service costs are very reasonable.

Given that the ONLY other accurate figures are the manufacturuer's own - which are not published - then we should accept what we can get.. Unless Brum has a secret set of hi/her own :-)

Strangely enough, figures round the world seem similar - see JD Power.. which says a lot.

Edited by madf on 27/07/2013 at 17:59

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 27 Jul 2013 18:24
Honda tops reliability survey - brum

Well Brum has obviously never bought a fleet of 20 odd LRovers as a frined's boss did. About a quarter had to be left at the dealer's premises for very expensive and lengthy rectification under warranty.. (He stopped buying them after that)..

And what has that to do with aftermarket Insurance sold to 5-7 year old vehicles?

I am not saying that Japanese vehicles are unreliable - that is an area that the old codgers on here would go to war and die to defend.... but to imply that 5 year old Bentleys are for ever off the road for repairs is pure nonsense. The publicity given to this in-house survey is completely skewed and of course, the winners will be trying their best to milk it for all its wotrth

The fact is this survey is no indicator of reliability, and is questionable if it even represents an accurate average cost of repair (how many "insurance" repair costs are inflated?). Honest Johns comment about goodwill may be based on his experience and feedback, but it has no place in discussion of this "survey" (analysis of their payouts more accurately). Unless it means that if Toyota replaces a faulty engine free of charge, instead of Warranty Direct paying for it (it wont), makes a Toyota a more "reliable" car.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 27 Jul 2013 20:15
Honda tops reliability survey - Falkirk Bairn

Since 1995 I have bought 6 x new cars

Excluding Tyres, exhausts, pads & Servicing

1995 Honda - sold 2001 - Repairs <£200 and 93Kmiles

1995 MB sold 1998 with 89Kmiles £2000

1998 Mazda (still own it) £900 repairs - mostly brake calipers - a result of age

2001 Honda - sold 2007 94Kmiles, £150 mechanical + Wing mirror £110

2007 Nissan - sold 2012 - nothing

2012 Honda...not been to garage since bought - due service soon

I appreciate not a typical large sample but draw your own conclusions!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 27 Jul 2013 20:57
Honda tops reliability survey - madf

"Unless it means that if Toyota replaces a faulty engine free of charge, instead of Warranty Direct paying for it (it wont), makes a Toyota a more "reliable" car."

You really appear to have no idea what actually happens in the real world. Honda and Toyota are notorious for replacing engines and other items FOC long after warranty periods have expired- if the fault is of their own making. See Toyota 2.2 D4D engines and Honda Jazz CVT .

No other manufacturer of volume cars comes close to that. And in some cases - Ford and CVT boxes come to mind - manufacturers sell cars with a known designed in fault and refuse to do anything. See also Mazda diesel engines.

The attitude of Honda and Yoyota can be contrasted with VAG who have a built in ABS design fault which VAG refused to acknowkedge..See also DSG - recalled in China but not in Europe.!

That is worth a LOT in terms of reliability stats.

Toyota recalls are largely not because Toyota produce worse cars.. Most makers could not give a rat's kiss about what goes wrong with a 7 year old car long out of production. Toyota do,


Edited by madf on 27/07/2013 at 21:01

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 27 Jul 2013 21:24
Honda tops reliability survey - brum

Ah, I see.....

A car that needs an engine replacing is more reliable than one that doesn't.......

JKW should be delighted.... www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=101585

Edited by brum on 27/07/2013 at 21:36

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 30 Jul 2013 08:36
Honda tops reliability survey - idle_chatterer

I must admit that our experience with a 2007 Civic FK3 2.2 CTDi (owned from new) was that it was far from reliable, numerous suspension faults and a general feeling of fragility. It was the only car in 20 years we've owned that refused to start on the driveway. The dealers were charming but completely unusued to dealing with unreliable cars.

Left me with the feeling that Hondas are fragile, I'm sure Honda would have continued with 'good will' but I actually don't want the hassle of visiting the dealer regularly. We traded it in 'early' for a Golf, have bought 2 VWs and a BMW since and am in no rush to go back to Honda. Our most recent Golf has suffered a cup holder failure and I must say how disappointed I am in VW.... Good job the Twincharger and DSG are working reliably I guess as 100% of them go wrong - apparently. whereas all Hondas are peerless, apparently.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link