Peugeot 308; Nissan Note - R-1234yf aircon gas scandal

Honest John Back Room » Motoring discussion
View Threaded
Tue 31 May 2016 08:09
Peugeot 308; Nissan Note - R-1234yf aircon gas scandal - Honestjohn
Seems we might have a new legislative lobbying scandal. About 2012 the old R-134a refrigerant gas in car a/c systems started to be replaced with a new one called R-1234yf on the grounds that it was less leak-prone and less harmful to the environment.

But in some cars R-1234yf seems to leak out of the systems faster than R-134a and instead of costing £45 - £60 for a re-gas is being quoted at £250 +.

So far we have reports of failures in Peugeot 308s and Nissan Notes after a couple of years, but this might just be the start.

Google 'new car a/c refrigerant' and you'll find out plenty more about it.

HJ
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 31 May 2016 08:38
Peugeot 308; Nissan Note - R-1234yf aircon gas scandal - Cyd

I remember Mercedes lobbying against the change at the time, but cannot remember the details

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 31 May 2016 08:51
Peugeot 308; Nissan Note - R-1234yf aircon gas scandal - elekie&a/c doctor
Worryingly difficult situation.This new gas may be better for the environment,but it is slightly flammable.That is why MB were very reluctant to use it.The cost of servicing the ac system is reflected in the cost of the gas which is only available from two sources,either Honeywell or Du pont and new equipment needed by workshops.Interestingly,this gas will only be used in a limited number of cars,as the manufacturers are now moviing over to a different gas again,probably Co 2 . VAG Models will start rolling off the line with Co 2 from next year,at some point,with other makers following.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 1 Jun 2016 18:01
Peugeot 308; Nissan Note - R-1234yf aircon gas scandal - slkfanboy
Worryingly difficult situation.This new gas may be better for the environment,but it is slightly flammable.That is why MB were very reluctant to use it.The cost of servicing the ac system is reflected in the cost of the gas which is only available from two sources,either Honeywell or Du pont and new equipment needed by workshops.Interestingly,this gas will only be used in a limited number of cars,as the manufacturers are now moviing over to a different gas again,probably Co 2 . VAG Models will start rolling off the line with Co 2 from next year,at some point,with other makers following.

As the german car makers alliance is promoting it, much all the German car makes will be claiming to be first to market!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 31 May 2016 09:17
Peugeot 308; Nissan Note - R-1234yf aircon gas scandal - craig-pd130

... and I'm guessing the dealerships are telling some customers that if they're not using the aircon / climate regularly, the refrigerant will leak, so it's the owners' fault?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 31 May 2016 11:07
Peugeot 308; Nissan Note - R-1234yf aircon gas scandal - Honestjohn

Thanks elkie&a/c doctor. That's starting to ring bells. Kind of like certain big German components manufacturers lobby the EC, but this seems to have come from the USA.

HJ

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 31 May 2016 11:18
Peugeot 308; Nissan Note - R-1234yf aircon gas scandal - elekie&a/c doctor
More info here:en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,3,3,3-Tetrafluoropropene
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 31 May 2016 11:23
Peugeot 308; Nissan Note - R-1234yf aircon gas scandal - brum

From what i recall, I believe this is a result of R134a having had patents expired and other manufacturers been able to produce/sell it without licences/royalties, so the big US monopolistic companies came up with this garbage and lobbied heavily (translation: bribed) to get it pushed through on "eco" grounds.

Mercedes were about the only company at the time to crash test with this new gas comprehensively and found that it posed a serious explosion/fire hazard but failed to make an impression on the eurocrat fat cats,

R134a has plummeted in price and thats why we can now regas for a reasonable price. A manager at F1 autocentre told me the cost of the gas was now peanuts. Dupont et al should be investigated for corrupt practices, it does not surprise me they lied about its benefits.

Edited by brum on 31/05/2016 at 11:25

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 31 May 2016 11:24
Peugeot 308; Nissan Note - R-1234yf aircon gas scandal - Brit_in_Germany

IIRC, the problem was not only the flammability of the new gas but also that one of the by products of combustion would be hydrofluoric acid (HF) which is very, very nasty.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 31 May 2016 18:27
Peugeot 308; Nissan Note - R-1234yf aircon gas scandal - mbah4

My wife has a 62reg Note which is, I gather, one of the last of the 4 cylinder 1600 auto versions.

The handbook quotes R134a gas for the AC but then also shows a plate giving the same info on the underside of the bonnet. That is not there and in any case would be covered up by the sound insulation on the underside of the bonnet. There is no indication of the referigant type anywhere else under the bonnet that I can see.

Not very helpful in this case but I suppose that the change was made with the introduction of the 3 cylinder version in 2013 as a new model and so required the change.

The handbook also quotes two types of oil lubricant for the AC unit one for the petrol engined versions and one for the diesel version - maybe the diesel version has the newer refrigerant? Not even sure if the diesel was sold in the UK anyhow.

Anyhow the AC is kept working all year round and works well - so far!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 31 May 2016 21:26
Peugeot 308; Nissan Note - R-1234yf aircon gas scandal - daveyK_UK

it is the new shape (current shape) Nissan Note that has this gas.

one question, can you not fill your aircon system with the old type of air con gas?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 31 May 2016 23:37
Peugeot 308; Nissan Note - R-1234yf aircon gas scandal - elekie&a/c doctor

Interestingly ,you could fill these newer cars with the old r134a gas and they will work perfectly ok.However ,there are a few issues.The charge port couplings are different and not interchangable.Any warranty would be void.Also this would be a nightmare to any techy servicing the car a/c system in the future.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 1 Jun 2016 10:13
Peugeot 308; Nissan Note - R-1234yf aircon gas scandal - focussed

Co2 has been mentioned as the new refrigerant gas - is this your actual CO2 - IE carbon dioxide? The vapour pressure from the liquid gas must be enormous

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 1 Jun 2016 11:12
Peugeot 308; Nissan Note - R-1234yf aircon gas scandal - elekie&a/c doctor
Yes,coming to a car very soon.Info here:futuregas.ac/r744/
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 1 Jun 2016 12:02
Peugeot 308; Nissan Note - R-1234yf aircon gas scandal - Honestjohn

Brilliantly helpful again. Thanks elekie&a/c doctor.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 1 Jun 2016 12:04
Peugeot 308; Nissan Note - R-1234yf aircon gas scandal - Vitesse6

Interesting article about it here

www.autoindustryinsider.com/?p=5697

Interesting that the CFC's which have been phased out of refrigeration systems were first developed by the man who also put the lead into petrol!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link