Google sent me to a superb Indian website. Roadtests and links. Well worth a visit.
www.cybersteering.com/
Even better if you got the link correct DD.
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I think that it is a good site - isn't the Corsa with a boot ugly. I did know that Autocar, who seem to be behind the site operated in India and many other countries, but it is interesting seeing what other countries are offered car-wise.
Paul C
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S.K. Gupta on "The Art and Science of Driving" explains it so well that I can't imagine how I've managed this long.
The Bullet was never hard to start but if you read how to do it here it definitely will be!
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Try www.indiacar.com - also run by the same people who own cybersteering. The Corsa is based on the Brazilian one. The estate looks good but alas, Opels are deemed as boring to drive out here.
Most manufaturers offer models similar to Thai and Brazilian models - similar tastes and conditions resp.
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I was in India over Christmas and saw a few of the Corsa 'saloons'. Ford also do a saloon version of the Fiesta - the Ikon which has a 1.6 petrol or 1.8 diesel engine, the Indians prefer saloons as its considered a status symbol to won one. With so much power over the usual Indian cars - Ambassadors, 850 Suzukis etc, the bad state of Indian roads and driving standards expect to see a sharp increase in road deaths in the coming years.
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Thanx, guys, for the URLs. I'll stick them in the useful websites directory on this site so they're always handy.
HJ
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Guy I worked with went to India, bought an Indian Royal Enfield and rode the thing back to the UK. They have even got all the original oil leaks in the right places!
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I think they make them now with electric start. I wonder if they still self-destruct the timing gear which drives the pushrod cams. I see there is some reference to trouble in this area on the India website, so maybe they do. Mine ate the teeth off two of them before I traded it in. The best attribute was the Albion gearbox with its instant neutral finder. Can' think why that never caught on with other brands. I was over in Cebu a few weeks back riding a Kawasaki Vulcan (OK I was incognito so my Harley bro's didn't see me) and that had a similar device.
A good few years since I was in India now but do they still have those fearsome 3-wheel Tempo things? They were a bit like like the Thai tuk-tuks only bigger, with seats for pasengers facing each other like the Filipino jeepney.
I also recall seeing in Calcutta (OK, OK, Kalkota...) Harley Davidson tricycles with passenger accommodation on the back.
Well, time for a Growler© anecdote. Circa Sept 1965 it may be recalled India and Kashmir came to blows. I was on a houseboat with a lady friend on the Dal Lake at Srinagar, an idyllic spot if ever there was. However, after a couple of nights of Pakistani jets strafing the lakes at low level our neighbour, the British manager of National & Grindlays Bank, suggested perhaps we should curtail our stay and hightail it back to Delhi. Supposedly the mountain road back down to Punjab was closed but somehow a travel permit was wheedled, I can't recall how. And so it was we acquired a rented Hindustan Ambassador with an irascible Sikh for a driver. He insisted on covering the car (a dirty cream) all over with mud for camouflage, and wiped a few holes in the glass for visibility purposes.
Our ride down that mountain road was terrifying - laden trucks, buses, bullock carts, you name it. It seemed Ranjit Singh or whatever his name was always speeded up at the most dangerous places, like when overtaking or hurtling round bends. I asked him why he did this when it was plainly such a dangerous road.
"But sahib" he replied, "the faster we get back to the plains the sooner the danger is over..."
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You can add www.autocarindia.com
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I recently arrived back from Shanghai and Beijing, where a colleague runs a Buick Sail. This is effectively a 1.6 Corsa with a boot, made in China by GM for local market consumption.
Of course, like all previous generation Corsa's, the interior looks like it was assembled by a child using Duplo Lego (tm) bricks, but his is now just over a year old, during which it has endured some terrible road conditions and the cut and thrust of Beijing traffic, and to my amazement, it was totally rattle and squeek free.
Hondas, Citroens, and pretty well everything current from the VAG range are also locally built in China, along with some pretty dire old Japanese cast-offs.
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Aaaargh.
I hit the dreaded apostrophe!
English teacher just turned in her grave.
Sorry.
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That's now added too. Thanx, Ajit.
HJ
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You OK SjB. No temperature? No tightening of the chest? More SARS than cars in China.
HJ
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Missus and I are fine thanks, HJ.
Reckon we got back in the nick of time (three weeks ago).
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I can't comment too much on more recent cars but after two visits to India, I was struck by the very varied transport on offer. There were loads of Isuzu's mainly the small van variety used to carry fare paying passengers, mostly in an off white (the soil was very red there). As for saloons, I remember lots of Suzuki Baleno's. Lots of nondescript scooters and Royal Enfields, if I remember right they were called Rajasthan's? These were brutes of the narrow road, thundering engine and less than nimble handling. Lots of TATA trucks there and Bedford van copies and also heavy (MAN?) trucks with an amazing propensity to throw out tons and tons of black smoke with a blistering top speed up a steep hill of about 6 mph. Which of course encouraged the buses to overtake them as they could manage at least 10mph.
Most of the public transport was old Leyland buses all jazzed up with stainless steel decorations and the obligatory young lad hanging off the back with a whistle giving signals to the driver for some reason. A 20 mile trip to the state capital would set you back 6p and offered the best views of the beautiful countryside.
For a bit of luxury, it had to be a Hindustan Ambassador, usually in white with the big bench seats and column shift. Very sedate and civilised if it wasn't for the other motorists. I think the highway code in India is see a car, sound your horn and try to avoid them and, er, that's it.
But the best ride of all was the white knuckle variety offered by the motorbike auto-rickshaw. Two passengers and for 60p for five miles you really could relive that auto-rickshaw ride made famous in Octopussy. I've heard these two-stroke machines are being outlawed in India due to their emissions.
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Interesting how they are offered what is, to us, old stuff. Dubious road tests too. 16 seconds for a 1.6 Astra to hit 100km/h?
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There was a sacred cow in the way.
HJ
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I think seconds are measured differently in India.
Apparently what used to be Leyland India is now Ashok-Leyland and continues to make the trucks and buses for the domestic market. There's also a Leyland Trucks in Turkey, which grew out of a subsidiary of the British company but now develops its own up-to-date models.
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No the engine used in Indian Astra's is a crude gruff Holden engine detuned for low octane fuel. 75 bhp
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Always wondered why Indian trucks would have "STOP" on one mudflap and "HORN PLEASE" on the other.
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But still, 16 seconds? Minor thing to notice I know but some of the figures are above 20 seconds e.g. the old 1.3 Fiesta (well, the one with a boot.)
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Endura engine, detuned = a slug
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So who's going to be the first to get a 'Super FuelMAX' franchise here? 27% better economy sounds useful (if slightly hyperbolic)...
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My replies to some of the comments
"Always wondered why Indian trucks would have "STOP" on one mudflap and "HORN PLEASE" on the other"
STOP in case you did not see the lorry
HORN PLEASE - in case the drivr dos not use his mirror - also if you horn, the driver will guide you when it is safe, even pull to the left and let you overtake. Do not expect this from bus drivers
"Apparently what used to be Leyland India is now Ashok-Leyland and continues to make the trucks and buses for the domestic market."
Now owned by IVECO and the Hinduja's (One of Mr Mandelsons friends) - Leyland makes IVECO trucks???!!!! some with Hino engines
"a 'Super FuelMAX' franchise here? 27% better economy sounds useful (if slightly hyperbolic)..."
Indians are obsessive about fuel consumption - never mind speed, depreciation etc. People will spend over 2000 pounds extra to buy a deisel not realising that they lose elsewhee.
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me give you some bumph on what we get in India
Hindustan Ambassador – Does not sell like it used to – great space inside, nice to be driven in , bought by govt or as taxi’s or used in rural areas
Hindustan Contessa – Old Vauxhall Victor with an Isuzu engine -No one buys them – too big outside, too small inside – mainly bought by corrupt ministers
Virtually the whole Suzuki range - Maruti 800 – old Suzuki Alto – 800 3 cyl – cheap buzzy, fun but lousy brakes – like a mini – has been a part of someone’s life sometime.
Maruti Zen – last gen - Suzuki Alto – The indian Golf – classless, upmarket image regarded as a great town car but cramped. Obsolete but still popular.
Maruti Alto – latest Suzuki Alto - safer but characterless, outsold by Zen
Maruti Wagon R – ugly – but accommodative
Maruti Vans – lethal 2 mmm between your legs and fresh air – used as taxi’s best voided
Maruti Baleno – Suzuki tried to be upmarket but failed. Vitara XL7 – stretching the brand, like VW and the Phaeton!
Ford Ikon – Fiesta with a boot – endura engine flopped, Rocam 1.6 a success, great car until you see what the bean counters did inside
Ford Mondeo – fully imported zetec Ghia – nice car but scrapes the bumps, parts are difficult. Coming soon – ford fusion – yuk
Opel Corsa – last gen corsa with a boot or an estate, hatch coming soon – boring to drive
Opel Astra – pre 97 version – no one looks at it now to be replaced by the Daewoo Nubira rebadged as a Chevy Optra
Opel Vectra – pls see Mondeo comments
Chevy Forester – Subaru rebadged
Daewoo Matiz to be rebadged as Chevy Spark. Nexia’s unwanted over here
Fiat Palio – nice car lousy after sales (have’nt we heard this before!!!)
Honda City – A de contented Civic but a great drive
Honda Accord – good car but bland
Mercs C 200d C180, E240, E220 D S320L over priced underpowered also M clas, SLK, CLK conv. on imported to order
Skoda Octavia – 2.0 l or TDI 90 A big hit but hardly any dealers Mitsubishi Lancer – previous model – underpowered 1.5 engine
Toyota Corolla – just launched – asian version, flimsy and overpriced
Toyota Camry – yawn
Toyota Qualis – a boxy utiliy vehicle
Tata Indica – now improved - goo value but still a few rough edges
Hyundai Amica – not bad – my mother owns one – pretty good in a stright line but ugly as sin
Hyundai Accent – Good value but unremarkable to drive
Hyundai Sonata – S type rear meets C class front – neither here or thee
Coming soon – Skoda Superb, Honda Civic, BMW as imports, Fiat Doblo, Merc 500SL (would you believe it). Generally what is launched in Thailand will come to India
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Thanks - a good read !
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As I delve deeper into the subject (I can't help myself) I visited Hindustan's Website. An altogether excellent site, all stops out for the Ambassador, including a rotating example and ten reasons why you should buy one - number nine tickled me "The Prime-Mnister's car" Surely in the UK a very good reason not to touch a car with a bargepole. Wisely perhaps, they drew the line at rotating a Contessa, but did refer to to its "bulbous headlamps" given the comments made above that's the best they could come up with. I feel strangely drawn to it - perhaps that's what comes of driving a boring car.
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Ajit,
what's happened to the Premier Padmini? Got chauffeured around in one of those when I spent two months in Madhya Pradesh in 89 and, even though it was obviously an old Fiat cast-off, it actually looked pretty cool.
Can't beat the old Jeeps, I say. Might not cut the mustard in the posher parts of Mumbai but, like the old Ambassador, they're easy to work on in the middle of nowhere.
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They discontinued the Padmini. Only the diesel version had appeal to taxi drivers but it would fail new car emission tests. They flog Uno diesels to this segment instead.
Jeeps still around but pretty crude and used in rural areas. Mahindra have designed a new vehicle - the Scorpio www.mahindrascorpio.com. A few good vehicle considering is is locally developed. Not much of a handler.
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From the website, it appears that the Scorpio (a suitably fish-faced 4x4) is indeed an all new car, but you have to ask why they bothered when you consider how similar it is to a Hyundai Galloper, which I am pretty sure is a reworking of the original 1980s Mitsubishi Shogun.
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Mitsubishi make the old Shogun but it costs nearly 30000 pounds. The Scorpio costs 10000. The japs really cream you on royalty and tech fees. The scorpio is design and built to be within certain cost parametes.
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Latest, GM have launched the Corsa hatch, but.......it was launched in the UK back in 1993...they diddled us with the 1994 astra, how long can they get away with dumping
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Presumably when a new model comes on line in Germany/Spain/UK the old assembly kit is shiiped out - GM won't get away with it for long.....
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As we are talking about foreign car mags and websites,
www.autocar.co.nz is of no relation to UK Autocar but publishes most if not all of their articles on the web.
Paul C
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The Galloper is still around. That original Mits it's based on(Pajero it is here) was still the best one they ever made for serious 4WD stuff. The new ones are too fat and overloaded with stuff, wheeas the originals did what they were intended. Used 'em for weekend wadi-bashing in Oman a few times. I can see how they'd work well on the sub-continent.
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