In the summer of last year a friend of mine was looking for a good secondhand tow car to lug his small caravan around the UK. I suggested a Subaru Legacy and went with him to look at a few in the local area (Midlands) - he was looking for something in the £6-10k price band.
Eventually he bought a Freelander (against my advice). The car turned out to be a nightmare of unreliability and thankfully he managed to offload it in a cash sale to a dealer yesterday lunchtime.
Anyway, yesterday I was clicking through the Autotrader website and decided to look at Subarus again for him. I was absolutely staggered to see many of the car we had seen last summer (June/July) still up for sale!. We are not talking about 'old nails' here, but very tidy Legacy saloons with 15-40k mileages and either just in, or just out, of warranty.
One car we looked at (2000 reg., a 2.5GX with aircon etc and about 25k on it) was up at £8.5k in the summer and is still there now at £7.5k
Why are these excellent cars seemingly so unloved?
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Hmm. I think one factor might be that most people don't know much about cars. They buy on the basis of the image presented by adverts. Until I came across the Backroom I believed that the highest quality, most reliable cars were German - Mercedes, VW, BMW, Audi - and that anything Japanese was tinny, would be OK for 7 years but insufficiently robust to last beyond that. I think Backroom members are way more knowledgeable than the rest of society and would recognise the qualities of Subarus. But Backroomers are a tiny minority of the car-buying population.
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Brand Image!
If you talk Subaru to many people it conjures up an image of a fire breathing, bespoilered aggressive Impreza. Also for all its undoubted qualities that car is not particularly attractive - IMO.
The Legacy is a world away from the Impreza and a fine car. I suspect also that the general public are wary of 4WD - which is marketed on saloons/estates in the UK as a performance characteristic.
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They're overpriced. The way to move them on is to make dramatic price cuts and advertise them. No point in sitting on the car, paying interest on the money tied up in it, then having to cut the price and pay for a lot of remedial work such as replacing rusty brake discs, replacing batteries, etc.
HJ
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I know Suburus have a good reputation for reliability, but when they do go wrong their spares prices are astronomical, - way above (almost double) those for M.Benz and BMW.
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One word - Diesel.
If Subaru produced a diesel engined Legacy they would fly out the showroom. The people in the market for a rugged 4wd estate don't want 27mpg. The lack of diesel option for this car has stopped me considering them. Put one in and I would snap it up.
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One word - Diesel.
Bang on the nail. If there was a Subaru Legacy estate with a diesel engine I would probably have one on the driveway right now. I'm hoping not to be in the market again for another five years at least, so maybe there will be one for me then.
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Spot on, ND.
Subaru has an excellent reputation among rural/horsey people. They have high 'field cred' as practical, reliable, classless cars. Anyone who regularly visits agricultural shows or equestrian events will see large numbers of muddy Legacies and Foresters in the car parks.
The lack of a Diesel option, however, seriously limits their potential market. If there was such a thing as a Legacy TDI half the Veterinary Surgeons in Britain would buy one, and my partner would be at the front of the queue.
I once raised this issue with one of the senior Subaru UK guys at the Motor Show. He freely agreed that they would love to have a Diesel, and that demand would be high but said that the flat-4 engine configuration was the problem. Apparently there is no such thing as a diesel boxer engine, and the cost of 'inventing one from scratch' would be prohibitive.
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HJ
You've hit the nail on the head!
It's just like my Xantia. I got rid at a low price on e bay. Decided it wasn't worth the hassle of trying to squeeze a couple of hundred extra out of it. It would go for what it would fetch.
I invested the money in a much more worthwhile project instead. I am having a drive to provide vehicular access to a property I own (and two others owned by other people) for the first time since it was build in around 1860.
My total investment in this project will return 300% in a few months in increased property value.
As HJ says, your money can earn much more elsewhere.
Hugo
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Quite right about brand image.
I first came across Subaru 20 years ago on a short visit to Oz, probably long before they came to the UK.I live semi rural, N/Yorks Cumbria border, and am on my third Legacy 2.0 estate.They are popular in my part of the world, and on fast A&B roads I return a very consistent 33mpg.When bought at 3 years old, as mine invariably are, from friends and relatives who have run them from new, they represent great value.
On an earlier post I asked BR'ers advice on buying a similar sized diesel estate,with the same surefootedness and reliability, but giving 40mpg due to my annual mileage increasing to 20k p.a.The consensus of opinion was not to change, at least until I can buy a friends 320d Touring at three years old, which is several months away.
The forecast wintry conditions could make me change my mind however!
Possibly because of the 4WD mechanicals, a lot of potential owners shy away unless they know the history of the vehicle.
For serious off road agricultural use, my friends swear by FourTraks, and moan their demise. Japanese no frills reliability wins the day again.
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I don't think a car sells well because it's good. The Metro, Freelander, Vauxhall Corsa were/are all topsellers. No. The Legacy's problem is that it's neither fish nor fowl.
The Forrester is popular because it's a rugged and discreet 4x4. The Impreza is popular because it represents the most accessible rally car for the road.
The non turboed Imprezas? The Legacy? Where do they fit into our lives? Imagine walking into a showroom and asking for a 'Solid reliable engineering based Japanese 4WD vehicle with litle image please'.
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Subaru is a manufacturer that people know little about. The high spares prices and difficulty in selling them on is a hindrance even though the cars may be great. In the same position as your friend I bought a Volvo 940 estate with 160000K on the clock for £2700 and ran it for 4 years with only routine maintainance except for a radiator which thanks to radweld was fixed. We drove that car hard all over the coutry until the turbo went ...ouch.....but still got £700 in PX. Thats £500 a year depreciation.
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The subaru thing starts with the new cars....dealers are few and far between so the brand is relatively rare as a new car and nobody wants to risk an unknown car second hand without any dealer backup.
Lots of new and second hand ones here but then we have a dealer 5 miles away (nr Witney).
Dont know much about the spares cost....never required for my car in Oz and the dealer was 200km away over there!
The insurance grouping and mpg are also a factor...the former rather than the latter was one of the factors stopping me importing the Outback I had in Oz.
Ian L.
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I looked at buying an Impreza/Legacy and did not:
Looks: iffy at best/bland/ugly
Interior: the words " cheap plastic"
Fuel consumption: abysmal in town..
Depreciation: apalling
Handling absolutely super.. but when is that the key ..80% of the time it is not.
Better deals elsewhere
madf
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I think there are several reasons why Subaru don't sell more:
Average joe/joess punter is a herd creature. Everyone else buys Ford/Vauxhall/Renault/Citroen etc. so I will too.
Average joe/joess punter wouldn't know a good car if it bit them. How else do new Astras sell?
Average joe/joess punter doesn't like going to dealers who also sell tractors and combines like many Subaru dealers do.
Some people (inexplicably to me) like diesels.
Spare price frighten some people, although the chances are they'll never need them. Yet they'll buy French!
Average joe/joess punter is frightened by anything different so the AWD scares them, or they think it'll be expensive and unreliable, like a Land Rover product.
Subaru's image is confused in many people's eyes. Baseball cap Imprezas and County set Legacy estates and Foresters don't fit in with many people's self image.
Most people have never driven one. If they did, and they enjoy driving a well-honed machine, they'd want one. If all they want is to get from A to B and a new reg plate, they'll buy something else.
I drive one and I can't think of a car that I could afford that I'd rather have. Still, each to their own.
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I came across a company who specialise in dismantling Imprezzas, and sell the pieces. Look up :
www.gradea-subaru.co.uk
It is in a very picturesque part of Derbyshire if you would like a walk after business.
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Good post Nick.
I was wondering how to reply in favour of Subaru's myself but you have hit the nail on the head several times.
I've had several Subaru over the last few years and just picked up a new Outback 2.5 last Friday - and I love the look of confused bewilderment from my friends who all have Golf's, 205/307's, Vectra's, A6's etc.etc. - they just don't get it.
I also think there is more to driving enjoyment than mpg and residuals.
Like you say, once driven forever smitten - that is if you have the courage of your convictions and not just follow the herd....
jd
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It looks as though we, the initiates, have got an exclusive little club going here.
I can't say that my Legacy is bombproof. It needed a clutch replacement at 17 000 miles. And that stupid nearside rear door/window seal comes off if anyone breaths on it! But, all in all, it rides better than most cars I have driven.
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hillman
I'm on my 6th or 7th Subaru now and I can honestly say that I've not had ONE single problem, except a slipping clutch on a 78,000 mile Legacy Turbo Estate some years ago.
My new Outback, like most Subaru's, brings a smile to my face every time I get in and I love being in a car that most people don't even know what it is.
jd.
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Well, I don't actually own a Subaru (and never have) but I've serviced/repaired a few and I reckon they are excellent cars. Well engineered and reliable.
There have been cases of clutch failure which were apparently due to poor QC at the supplier. I suspect all cases have now been resolved.
I fixed a couple where the coolant temp. sensor went bad, and another where the crank sensor failed at about 78k miles (on a '95 car).
I've also changed cam belts (which is an awkward pig of a job for which a dealer will charge something silly - like £400).
Good cars though - I even rather like their 'quirky' styling. The only slight let-down for me is the interior. Mind you, at current used prices I reckon a 2-3 year old Legacy saloon is an absolutely stonking bargain.
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I read with interest...
I am currently chopping in my old Skyline for something thats a little less expensive to run (!), has more doors (baby on the way) but still a good grin to drive. Have £2.5K to spend and I have looked at a lot of different motors and can only come to one conclusion, Legacy 4 Cam Turbo wagon. What a sleeper and should be able to get a belter for that money.
May they long remain a secret...
BTW, if anyone has any interesting alternatives for my requirements, feel free to let them be known :)
Cheers,
Pad
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I live on an inclined avenue with a steeper incline at the top to match the main road camber. But I am too close to the top to get a run at it. I chose my previous car, Volvo 440 with traction control, purposely for the problem. It worked very well (albeit noisily) as long as one of the wheels could grip. On sheet ice it was of no use. Somehow, my Legacy seems to grip anywhere, hasn't failed yet.
We the initiates!!
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Just get a Discovery!
[cat firmly amongst pigeons]
H
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Just get a Discovery! [cat firmly amongst pigeons] H
LOL!! Tell that to my friend who has just managed to get shot of his 'orrible Freelander!
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Just get a Discovery!
One good reason?
More cats...
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Since Xmas have been looking for something to replace my Nov 2000 Picasso 1.6SX. Wanted something with a ?bit more? power, more space for dog and luggage (ie estate), quieter and more relaxing on long distances. Tested Avensis, Accord, Rover 75, MG ZTT and finally Legacy. All in same price range (well Avensis a bit cheaper) but no comparison after driving them. Legacy is streets ahead, everything else feels cheap and nasty by comparison and comes nowhere near for handling. 2.5SE now due on March 1st. Although basic price is quite high, I can?t think of a single extra option I?d want, everything is included. Plus got £6,800 trade in on Picasso (paid £9,995 well over 3 years ago).
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My son pointed out an article in the 3 Feb 2004 Autocar magazine, page 23, author John Coates, 'Insider Dealing' It praises the Legacy in an almost indecent manner.
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