May I suggest that here two ways of looking at this issue?
The first approach is the one which HJ proposed: set a fee based on what he reckons he'd like to earn from the backroom. The problem is that it's clearly much more than folks are preapred to pay.
However, the alternative approach to the problem is to look at how much money the ads bring in, and whether subscriptions might bring in more. That might not be as much as HJ would like, but if it's enough to replace the ad revenue plus the cost of the establishing and running subscription system, he'd come out ahead.
Remember, the proposal was not to eliminate the ads entirely,merely to turn them off for the folks who pay the subs. So the relevant advertising income here is not the site's total ad revenue, but the ad revenue from 1,000 backroomers.
If the advertisers are prepared to pay anything near £60 per user per year for the privelige of pushing ads into the backroom, then I reckon he's onto a very good thing and should hang on to the money while it lasts. I don't claim to have much of a grasp of the economics of advertising, but I'd be very surprised if that was a wise use of an advertising budget ... so even if there is that much coming in, I really wonder if it would last.
It's HJ's site, and it's his call how he wants to run it. But it seems to me that a much lower-priced subscription model would probably still bring in more money than advertising
|
I am intrigued by the 'legacy of debt' mentioned. Come to that I would be interested to see the history of this site.
Or is that impertinent?
|
|
|
Many thanks, No Wheels. You have a lot of ideas. But as I mentioned earlier, before I make any major changes to the site I want the money to fund those changes up-front. I can't make the changes myself. I have no tecchie knowledge and don't have time anyway. I would have to employ people to do this. The orginal design and set-up costs of the site (paid by my publisher) were mind-boggling. At the moment I can't even afford to free-up the directories which a previous webmaster locked in html.
Also I have a contract with the ad agency. I cannot suddenly shift the goalposts by failing to deliver what the site currently offers to advertisers.
By the way, site visits have now reached an all time record of an average of 10,320 a day for May so far and suddenly the most read section has become the road tests, apparently from Google search engine referrals by make and model of car.
As for the £60k you think I make, where did you get that from? I explained earlier in the thread that to pull in a subscription income of £10k to £15k, after costs, I have to go for a subscription income of £60k.
But anyway, the point is proven, not a single Backroomer has committed to pay a £60 a year sub.
Dan's well-organinsed Backroom Meet in North London last summer is still a painful memory. It was discussed endlessly in The Backroom. Well over a hundred Backroomers promised to show up. But only ten did.
HJ
|
By the way, site visits have now reached an all time record of an average of 10,320 a day for May >>
would it be possible to know how many backroomers there are?
regulars, non regulars, general stats for site etc etc
(just curious)
|
Hi
Heres my 10p worth.
I think a small online shop should be started whereby you can purchase :-
HJ/backroom keyrings.
Window stickers.
T shirts.
Mouse mats.
They will generate some income as people like to promote something they think is good.
--
(iam not a mechanic)
Martin Winters
|
|
We looked at a shop on the site I moderate, but there is quite considerable cost involved in setting up (stocking), and also for small items p&p can make them unappealing. When we did the t shirts, we did them to order, cash up front, and at cost. I wouldn't imagine it would be a money spinner here.
|
I know I'm coming in a bit late on this but here's my tuppence.
I don't have a problem with ads, I even click on a few (most often auto trader - I think some car insurance ads, maybe quick search type like the autotrader one would be well clicked as well) I wouldn't pay to get rid of the ads it's just not that much of an incentive there would have to be other services included in a subscription fee to make it seem worthwhile eg. email account, personal avatar on posts, maybe an edit button? I'd probably buy into merchandising but at low volumes it wouldn't make much. The other suggestion that hasn't be raisied yet is a regular email from HJ to all backroomers inculding a couple of his articles and a bunch of advertising. Would that raise some revenue?
|
Thanks for that, Old Peculiar. It's an idea. But everything I do apart from the magazine and newspaper stuff appears on the site anyway. I had wondered about the road tests because of the amount of work compared to the return, but it seems that they are now attracting a lot of new visits to the site via Google so have been worthwhile in terms of figures. If May continues the way it has been so far then we'll be looking at 320,000 site visits, which is 60,000 up on April and 70,000 up on March.
HJ
|
I agree with OP on this one. If there were some other incentives such as an email address and more forum options then I would buy into it. I understand this would be difficult to implement but I feel more people would pay for this added incentive.
Thanks
Adam
--
No Signature at Imagos' Request
|
www.cafepress.com
No set up costs, but it is US. Never stopped me from buying from there in the past, though.
|
Oh please...is nobody bored of this yet?
Right so we've established that practically everyone doesn't actually mind the ads, except for when they go wrong. This is technology, things go wrong. It's not HJ's fault and he does a better job than most of getting hold of the right people to sort it out. All of us have said we're not really willing to pay for an ad free site, so how about we all stop moaning about the ads and just point out gently to HJ or the mods via email when something is going wrong? This is a motoring forum chaps (and chapesses), but it's becoming increasingly like a computer forum every day.
HJ... you're very defeatist. Lots of people have suggested ways to you of saving money or making extra revenue from this site - I even offerred to do your PR a few months back! Every suggestion has been met with a "yes but" or "that wouldn't work" with apparently no investigation.
And as for the people who've been saying "poor HJ, he shouldn't have to finance the site out of his own pocket". Er, of course he should - it's his business! Nobody goes up to Richard Branson, Mr Tesco or Mrs Marks and Spencer and says "blimey, you're doing a wonderful job there, would you like some cash" and expects nothing in return do they? HJ keeps the profit so why shouldn't he bear the losses too, especially as he's rather reluctant to take on new ideas which could actually make him money?
Finally to agree with some of the other posters, I would fully support the move to a format similar to that used by V-Bulletin, which offers the email, PM etc and would probably pay to use it (but not £60 a year!).
|
[round of applause mode]
Speechless, absolutely speechless. Brava! Brava!
[/round of applause mode]
|
|
The other suggestion that hasn't be raisied yet is a regular email from HJ to all backroomers inculding a couple of his articles and a bunch of advertising. Would that raise some revenue?
I get too many unsolicited e.mails as it is. I would only approve of this idea if it were possible to opt out of the email sevice.
|
I think the approach suggested by several contributors which advocates leaving the ads, but trying to address problems with particular offerings as and when they arise, is the best solution.
I would not feel able to pay to access the Back Room, interesting site that it is. I will not pay for the screen print version of the Daily Telegraph, even though that denies me the pleasure of the cryptic crossword. (UK papers are extortionately expensive in Spain, so I don't purchase the paper editions either!)
I don't generally pay for software(apart from my virus checker & firewall, and even there I will be going for the free ones when current subs expire), either as there are ways and means ......................!
As an aside, the ad which has been causing page loading delays today - on Opera, Mozilla and IE - is Autotrader. It seems that the ads are set to load first before page content and if an ad fails, the page won't display.
Roger in Spain
|
As with Pologirl, I'll offer my services for free to migrate the BR to another system in order to cut the costs of running the BR. I think if it was running vBulletin/IPB it has the potential to be much more successful than it is now.
You can make money from people on forums - and yes through ads. I think the text stuff HJ has from motorprovider and their ilk work the best, rather than a flash as for an XC90.
|
Many thanks for everyone\'s contributions.
Migrating to another server in the States would not be as cheap as many of you imagine because we have to have at least two servers: one as back-up. (Remember what happened to all the servers in the basement of the WTC.)
We also have a contract with our UK servers until March next year.
A word to Pologirl: the reson I don\'t take on the new ideas is because I know they will create a lot more work to no benefit. I was the one who turned this site into a business, no one else. (Everyone else who tried failed, so I just had to do it myself.) It does work as a business. The whole point of bringing up the idea of subscriptions (again) was to prove (again) that it just won\'t work. More than 100 Backroomers promised to show up at Dan\'s Backroom Meet last year. In fact, only 10 did. No offence to Backroomers in general but that did established a ratio of likelihood.
But, on a positive note, all this discussion helped Stephen to renegotiate our UK server fees down by 20%, so thank you for that.
I think we have now taken this as far as we can, so I\'m going to lock the thread and make more space on the front page for normal Backroom discussion.
HJ
|
|
|
|
|
