Unless descending a hill, leave the autobox in drive and if you are descending a hill, put it into the lower gear before you start descending. Slipping it into and out of drive at traffic lights (or into lower gears to accelerate)won't do your torque convertor and clutch bands any favours and yes, they are significantly more expensive to replace than burnt out brakelight bulbs. If the person behind you finds your brakelights 'too bright" then they have a problem that an optician needs to sort out. If the current intensity of brakelights was found to be too bright for road users I am sure the governmental types would have tackled the menace by now.
Left foot braking, absolutely essential for performing smoky tyre burnouts in an automatic, but beyond that really only useful to reduce brake response times. A left foot already in contact with the brake pedal *will* be quicker to apply the brake than a right foot that has to release the accelerator and travel over to the brake pedal. I was taught this during my emergency vehicle training and fully accept that it has no useful purpose in everyday driving. In many of the training/driving maneouvers, the brakes were applied at various levels even while the vehicle was accelerating. This serves to "load" the torque convertor and give quicker acceleration too.
If anyone remember 5th Gear when VBH (calm down ND) was drag racing a Bentley, she was getting very bad 1/4 mile times. The reason for this is because the torque convertor had to be loaded up before the car would move. What she should have done was fully apply the brake pedal while pressing the accelerator to load the torque convertor and raise the RPMs into a higher power band. Then its a simply matter of releasing the brake (as you would with a clutch) and the car would rocket forward. Of course this is only possible with left foot braking.
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>>This serves to "load" the torque convertor and give quicker acceleration too.
And does absolutely no favours at all to your auto box - causing over heating, wear to the bands etc. etc. etc.
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"And does absolutely no favours at all to your auto box - causing over heating, wear to the bands etc. etc. etc."
Absolutely correct, however this was taught in my emergency vehicle course where the speed and response of an ambulance or a police car (or a Bentley press car) was deemed far more important than the cost of the equipment. At no time did I recommend or even suggest that people do it during normal everyday driving.
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>At no time did I recommend or even suggest that people do it during normal everyday driving.
Indeed.
The questioner asked for "best practice techniques".
No way does that involve left foot braking.
Now if the question were "What home made driving techniques do people use?" - different question.
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Yes he did ask for "best practice techiniques" then went on to mention left foot braking and that he was unsure about it. I gave my opinions on and experiences with left foot braking in an attempt to explain its use better.
As for "What home made driving techniques do people use?". Left foot braking was taught to me by emergency vehicle instructors on a closed course using various vehicles which resulted in my now being licensed to operate them. So obviously my responses would not be suitable for such a question and I would have to leave that one for the home made drivers.
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"Slipping it into and out of drive at traffic lights (or into lower gears to accelerate)won't do your torque convertor and clutch bands any favours and"
Err it won't make any difference the TC rotates at all times so all you'll do is unload the output shaft which on modern autos the ECU idle management will keep the tickover at the same speed.
My late Father was Borg Warner trained and he could tell the quality of driver by stripping the auto. Left foot braking used to wear clutches and brake bands and generates a LOT of heat.
NO ONE needs to sit at traffic lights or where ever with their foot on the brake all you need to do is pull the handbrake on. Sat behind some muppet on the M25 last year after a major shunt which stopped all traffic for 20 minutes on 3 occasions. This complete plank sat with his foot on the brake for the entire 20 minutes each time. It was dark and I had a blinding headache at the end of the trip. Came close to getting out and tapping on his window, but if you're that ignorant.....
Jim
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It isn't the spinning of the convertor that wears it and the clutch bands its the loading and unloading (through excessive use of the selector) that causes the wear. That thunk you hear/feel when placing the car in drive etc is the buildup of fluid pressure and the clutch band taking up slack. If your father says this causes no harm (and I am not as qualified as he is to refute him)then why do automatics wear out?.
Totally agree that no-one needs to sit with their foot on the brake but can't agree with you that brake lights cause headaches.
I ask this with all sincerity, are the brake lights used in the UK brighter than in any other part of the world?. I have yet to hear of others complain about brakelights, even when I lived in the US where the majority of cars are automatics and no-one I know ever takes the car out of drive at lights etc.
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.... Then its a simply matter of releasing the brake (as you would with a clutch) and the car would rocket forward. Of course this is only possible with left foot braking....
Yup, makes a helluva difference to how my brother's V70 D5 auto gets off the mark too! Driven like this, with the turbo brought on to boost a second or so before releasing the foot brake, the car goes like a scalded cat, not that far off my manual V70 2.4T, with so much torque that the tyres struggle to contain it.
Driven 'conventionally', with right foot moving from brake to throttle, initial launch is much more sedate, as typical modern diesel (nothing, nothing, everything) power delivery is allowed to rule the roost.
Of course, this technique is not used all the time, because it does put a lot of heat and extra strain in to the powertrain. For toasting the odd GTi at the lights however...
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"Keep right-foot braking, easier to adapt if you drive a manual car again eg loan car when yours is being serviced." DEFINATELY!
Also, your brain may react differently in an emergency to when you're normally driving! I had a warning about 12 years ago when I was 18, I had been driving a Mercedes 190 auto a lot (my bosses) and I tried left foot braking, upon using a Sierra for a day, an emergency ensue, and I left foot braked and locked the wheels, and stalled the vehicle, this caused a big problem for those behind, and put me off it for good, obviously a different brain area is used in emergencies than for normal driving and usless you've 'reprogrammed' both, you may come unstuck!
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You know your brain better than I do, Sooty Tailpipes. But why is it that people who cannot do something persist in condemning those who can? Your point of view is akin to stating that because you cannot fly a helicopter, then on-one should. Or because you cannot juggle three balls, then no one should ever try.
HJ
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Drove an auto for the first time a few yrs ago in the states and naturally moved over to using left foot for braking as it seemed the logical thing to do. Didn't find any problems once I got over how insensitive my left foot was.
It also allowed me to do demon starts from the lights :D
Has to be worth a try just for the increased control, if you don't like it then just go back to the method that suits you.
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Unless your left foot is over the brake pedal all of the time (and I don't believe this is practical), there is no way it is the logical thing to do. Your left foot has further to travel from the floor (or foot rest) to the brake pedal, than the right foot has to travel from the throttle pedal to the brake pedal. You can anticipate every emergency stop? Then you have a different kind of brain to normal homo sapiens.
If you want to have demon starts away from the lights, fine, but not for stopping a car quickly.
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I have driven several hire cars with auto over a few thousand miles but always kept my left foot parked.
I am now about to switch to an auto and read the above comments with interest but one aspect has not been mentioned in conjunction with autos - Cruise Control.
It seems to me that if cruise control is fitted (mine will have it) then, when in cruise with both feet off the pedals a nice big brake pedal is a better, safer target for a left foot when an emergency stop is required.
Like others I found that left foot braking was lacking control and gave it up because it was on a short hire in a strange environment. I will start trying it again tomorrow.
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In response to the question in the first post about overdrive which no-one seems to have answered.......leave the overdrive on at all times unless you want engine braking for hills, gentle slowing on faster roads or a series of bends - e.g. just like putting ordinary non-Jap autos into third (or fourth).
No problem with left foot braking; its just a case of getting used to it. If you can't then you can't, if you can, then fine.
--
Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Sorry to say this HJ, but you have done a bit of condemning yourself. It is clear that you believe that those of us who have a problem in accepting the principle of left foot braking, are either deficient in brain power or limited in physical attributes.
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?The gear select lever gives quite a thunk (relatively speaking) when engaged.?
?That thunk you hear/feel when placing the car in drive etc is the buildup of fluid pressure and the clutch band taking up slack.?
I park on my path, which has a slope of 8 degrees. This is quite steep, and I?m grateful that at last I have a car with a good handbrake. I think that putting the gearbox in Park inserts a ?peg? that locks up the gears and the wheels - am I correct? Corrections anybody! I start the engine in Park and then select Neutral before letting off the handbrake ? result, smoothly roll down the path. If I forget and let off the handbrake before moving the lever the weight of the car seems to lean on the peg. The lever is then stiff to move and goes out with a pronounced ?thunk?. I put this down to carelessness and mentally kick myself, hoping that I have not overstrained something.
Can someone advise?
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You are quite right in everything you say, Hillman. 'P' uses the same valving as neutral, but locks the output via a 'pawl' mechanism.
If rebuilding autoboxes (which, Lord be thankful, I haven't done for a long time) one occasionally comes across a 'box where the driver has shoved the lever into 'P' before the car has come to rest. This can snap the end off and 'P' no longer holds the car. The Americans tend to leave their cars in 'P' and not bother with the handbrake, which I've always thought of as a bit dodgy.
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I have never used the handbrake in any of my auto cars/trucks and always relied on leaving it Park. I suppose that isn't a "best practice technique" but I haven't had any problems with it yet. I suppose a handbrake, (or parking brake as all the ones I had were foot operated), could become stuck from lack of use, but I can't say I have experienced that.
People who are used to driving manuals tend to use the parking brake in autos as it is something they are used to doing. On more than a few occasions I have lent my truck out to someone and gotten it back to find that it doesn't move when I put it in Drive. Usually takes me a few seconds to figure out that they parked it and put the parking brake on 8-).
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Same here, trancer. Happens to me when I collect the car from MOT - only time the handbrake gets any exercise.
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quote "Unless your left foot is over the brake pedal all of the time (and I don't believe this is practical), there is no way it is the logical thing to do. Your left foot has further to travel from the floor (or foot rest) to the brake pedal, than the right foot has to travel from the throttle pedal to the brake pedal. You can anticipate every emergency stop? Then you have a different kind of brain to normal homo sapiens."
Don't know how you drive but my left foot sits a few inches away from the brake in an auto and takes the same amount of time to pivot from rest to pedal as my right foot would. Using the left foot also enables me to brake and accelerate in corners. Why would you want to do this?
Ask a racing driver.
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>brake and accelerate in corners. Why would you want to do this?
Ask a racing driver.
Indeed.
Now ask any Professional Advanced Driving Instructor why you don't do that on the road.
Like Hugh Noblett at Cadence, Or Julian Smith at RideDrive or John Lyon at HPC.
"Be safe, brake first then change down on the approach to hazards."
Braking during cornering is an off-road technique (used lots by rally cars) but has no place in road driving.
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Not just used in rally driving but track situations as well, also used by spirited and responsible drivers in situations where other road users aren't involved. If you haven't the skill................
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And what professional taught this "high skill level" road technique?
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Not just used in rally driving but track situations as well, also used by spirited and responsible drivers in situations where other road users aren't involved. If you haven't the skill................
Where on a public road would other road users not be involved?
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Don't know how you drive but my left foot sits a few inches away from the brake in an auto and takes the same amount of time to pivot from rest to pedal as my right foot would. Using the left foot also enables me to brake and accelerate in corners. Why would you want to do this? Ask a racing driver.
So you have an auto with a foot rest a few inches away from the brake pedal? I would imagine autos are set up with the brake pedal positioned for right foot braking, i.e. close to the throttle pedal. The foot rest on our C5 is a long way from the brake pedal. I would agree that, if the foot rest was near to the brake pedal and the brake pedal was further away from the throttle pedal, then left foot braking would be logical. I have never come across an auto where this is the case.
If your left foot is on the floor next to the brake pedal, it still has further to travel than the right foot, particulary as a lot of cars now seem to have the brake pedal set higher than they used to be. The brake pedal on our C5 is set much higher than the one on our Xantia.
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Oh cut it out. Pointless notes removed.
Discuss it as much as you want but keep it nice.
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I quite agree, there is no need to resort to unpleasant personal remarks.
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Agreed, although you must be a sensitive soul to take it that way. Get a thicker skin.
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Lordy me.
When I get an automatic, I'll just not use the brake pedal at all, rather than risk argument about whether I'm doing it wrong.
Any ideas on alternatives? Driving into the wall may not always be feasible (hedges are a poor substitute), and engine-braking seems likely to provoke more controversy. Anyone tried using one of those drag-racer's parachute thingies?
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What HJ is saying is that in his instance having the left foot free and available for braking was actually an advantage for him in saving the life of that Escort driver, who was obviously trying for a Darwin award at the time.
It is true that the right foot brakers amongs us would not have had that advantage, but had HJ been driving a manual car he too would have been disadvantaged.
I think that it is best to see LFB as an extra safety feature, in addition to all the other skills that make you fit for the road. If you can do it great, however, if you can't or feel uncomfortable with it - as I do, no worries.
I suspect that to be fair to HJ and others, those that drive autos all the time may on average find it easier than those, (like myself) who switch between three vehicles, two with very different manual clutches and one auto.
No Wheels, if you're concerned about breaking, just get a 4 x 4 with big bull bars, I hear the're very popular in your neck of the woods...:)
H
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No Wheels, if you're concerned about breaking...
Breaking what?
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What HJ is saying is that in his instance having the left foot free and available for braking was actually an advantage for him in saving the life of that Escort driver, who was obviously trying for a Darwin award at the time. It is true that the right foot brakers amongs us would not have had that advantage, but had HJ been driving a manual car he too would have been disadvantaged.
We come back to the same issue, i.e where is the left foot before braking? HJ says that he didn't have time to move his right foot from the throttle pedal but the left foot has to be moved too (from somewhere), whether it is free or not, so how can he move it faster than his right foot? The right foot is right next to throttle pedal, it really couldn't be closer. The left foot could only be used to advantage if it is kept hovering over the pedal (or right next to it). Do you think this is practical? As HJ said, it is not possible to anticipate every occasion when emergency braking will be required, so I don't see how that supports his argument for left foot braking. There will be occasions when you can anticipate hazards but not all of the time.
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Machika, if you read my postings you will see that I explained this. You drive with your left foot over the brake pedal when it is sensible to do so. Then you can brake much faster than if you have to move your right foot from one pedal to another first. People mostly get killed by right foot braked automatics just after start-up or when they are being manouvered (read the newspapers). This is the circumstance when a fraction of a second can and does make the difference between life and death.
HJ
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HJ, I don't have a problem with using the left foot to anticipate braking or (if you want to) when manouvering. Personally, I use a dead throttle when parking, etc, and have my right foot over the brake. It is braking in emergency situations that you can't anticipate, that I have an issue with.
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I must say, I tend to use both feet interchangably on the brake pedal. I have absolutely no problem in changing to a manual.
I'm not convinced that using both feet provides any safety benefit whatsoever, but it does stop pins & needles in the left leg 8-).
As stated previously, like Machika, I cannot conceive manoeuvering with a foot on the accelerator. The dead throttle provides far more than enough juice at all times.
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I tried this coming to work this morning.
Firstly trying to keep my left foot hovering above the brake was damnably uncomfortable, its not like you can leave your foot resting on the pedal, so its definitely got to hover.
If its not hovering, then I'm sure my right foot will be quicker to the pedal then my left foot which would be resting on the floor.
I am sure that its a useful off-road technique. I'm sure it can be a "fun" on-road techique, but I can't see its usefulness really.
And I'm really not convinced that it would help me avoid an accident. First you've got to realise something is happening and who knows how long that could take. Secondly your body's reaction time is somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4 second, then you've got to stop the car - in all of that I would have thought that the time saving would fade into insignificance.
And I'm sure that in an accident my brain would get confused and tangle my feet up as I tried to remember which foot to use.
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Mark, I would concur with all that you have said.
I have just returned from a short journey, during which I tried positioning my left foot over the brake pedal. It was altogether too uncomfortable in the C5 to contemplate doing it for long. For one thing, being tall, with quite long legs, my knee tended to make contact with the steering wheel (which my right knee doesn't, as the pedal is set up for right foot braking). Definitely not an option for me in a C5.
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So mr smartypants here has stayed out of the debate. After all, years of driving an autobox with only the right foot PROVES that I know what I'm doing, right? WRONG.
This morning, my day started differently. I had to go to the local petrol station for a free carwash. (see my Filthy Car thread - Caltex is giving washes away!!!!)
Now, carwash is half a mile away, and normally I'll drive straight past it. Today I drove in, and got into the queue. Next thing, the car surged, and I nearly went into the back of the car in front. got the brake just in time with the right foot. It would appear that as today is a tad chilly, and the car hadn't had much time working, that the electric brain said "Bit cold... Let's boost the revs a bit!" and did.
So from now on, I think I'll practice this left-foot braking in similar circumstances.
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