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I've come across these but I have to ask what the point is. If a driver has missed the flashing beacons and road markings, it's too late to slow down for pedestrians when reminded to do so by the hump.
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We have two in our village. I take WS' point but they do slow traffic in the village. However, there are muppets who think that since the hump is flush with the kerb, this means it is a convenient place to park without having to bump up a kerb while they nip into the shops or to the post box!
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Either that, or you get reminded by the bump as you go over a pedestrian.
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Make sense in 20mph 'Slow Go' pedestrian friendly areas. But not on main roads. What about the 23 hours a day when no one is crossing the crossing? All they then do is unnecessarily destabilise and damage cars, creating danger rather then reducing it.
HJ
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This government and the councils in the same flabour, are doing this to punish the motorist - it says so in black and white in the integrated transport policy documents, they wan to punish car users, and give give precident to pedestrians, cylists and public transport users, and then they list the draft of draconian communist plans such as humps, bumps, delay gate traffic light phasing and S.C.O.O.T.
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I can think of one zebra crossing on a speed bump in my town. In principle it's a good idea. But the design is flawed - the speed bump IS the zebra crossing, as it were. The bumps should be some distance either side of the crossing, not right next to it. That would slow vehicles down in time.
There have been problems of bumps allegedly damaging buses, but I'd have thought the average private car's structure takes more of a pounding from the constant little irregularities and potholes on the roads than from the occasional speed bump taken at a sensible speed.
In the Highway Code it states that when turning into a side road one should give way to pedestrians who are crossing the road. Maybe the London authorities have installed the junction 'platforms' to remind motorists of this fact.
Cheers, Sofa Spud
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HF - There are several in St Mary Cray and Bexley and IIRC they're all sited within 20mph zones. Agree with HJ about their siting though.
Some years ago I was told by a senior traffic engineer that speed humps were/are illegal on main roads and I'm struggling to think of an area in which I've come across any humps on a major route. It may well be though that the rules have changed and they can now be used in conjunction with other traffic calming measures.
To be fair the zebra crossing humps you mention are quite gentle - far less severe and damaging than those horrendous block speed tables not a million miles away from us.
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Well I suppose I wasn't really expecting many to agree with me on this subject.
I take on board everyone's points of view, and the zebra bumps that I was talking about are not on major routes, but neither are they in 20 mph zones.
I hear what is said about flashing beacons being enough - on the crossing I was referring to there are no flashing beacons.
These are not going to damage our cars any more than any other speed bumps, which in my area are proliferous in the more wealthy streets.
So what is the difference - nice suburban road protected by speed bumps because the residents campaigned for them, or grotty council estate road getting a bump to protect those using its zebra crossing?
No-one has yet convinced me that this isn't a good idea.
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There is so much talk now of "calming" traffic by making the roads bumpier one wonders why they wasted the money metalling them in the first place.
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If you're referring to the one in St Mary Cray it is in a 20mph zone HF. IIRC the zone encompasses most of St Mary Cray High Street - from Elizabeth Way to Kent Road.
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The whole concept of a speed-bump is wrong. If I drive over one at 30mph in a 30mph zone then I will destroy my car. I have to take speed bumps at around 10mph. So make the limit 10 and be done with it... at least it saves my suspension. If a 30 (or 20) limit is too fast for a street then reduce the limit. I'm sure that speed-bumps' gradual take-over of the country has helped escalate the fashion for Chelsea tractors that we seem to have these days.
If the limit says 30 then why put obstacles in my way that wreck my car if I am driving within the limit? Madness.
I remember reading, some time ago, about speed-bumps that would deflate if you went over them within the limit, but stay inflated if you went too fast. Then they could deflate for emergency vehicles too. Why aren't we seeing those being introduced?
And as for a speed-bump at a zebra crossing - surely replacing it with a bump-free pelican crossing would benefit everyone all round?
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Except for the cost E34kid - Pelican Crossings don't come cheap and neither would reactive speed bumps of any description. I think we need to understand that many sleeping policemen (certainly around here) were put in at the request of residents who wanted them installed to REMOVE traffic, not slow it down. Private estates at Public expense really! Thankfully it's a bit different here now but the legacy remains.
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I take on board everyone's points of view, and the zebra bumps that I was talking about are not on major routes, but neither are they in 20 mph zones. I hear what is said about flashing beacons being enough - on the crossing I was referring to there are no flashing beacons.
Hi HF, we're about to get some zebras on raised humps in our new 20mph zone around the local school, can't really see an issue with them in that context. I do have my doubts in other scenarios though.
However, I'm a little confused that you seem to be referring to zebras without flashing beacons; to coin a pun, there ain't no such animal! All pedestrian crossings in the UK are associated with either Belisha beacons or in the case of 'bird' crossings, traffic lights. I have seen raised kerb to kerb tables with nice white triangles in Chelmsford and in my opinion they are an accident waitng to happen, they are in a 30 limit but look enough like a zebra for pedestrians to think they are, consequently they tend to step out without really any care and act surprised when the are met with a squeal of brakes.
Cockle
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Hello Cockle, good to see you again.
As regards the zebras with no flashing beacons, there are two distinct possibilities here. Either these crossings *do* have beacons which I have failed to notice (anyone who knows me would tell you that that is eminently feasible), or they have been removed/destroyed by the low-life living in the area to which I allude.
The ones I'm talking about aren't the white triangle things you refer to; these are existing zebras which have had tables added recently.
I know what you mean about other 'crossings' which make pedestrians assume they can just step out - some of these are downright dangerous, in particular I think those right by junctions or roundabouts.
If I find I am wrong about lack of beacons I will, with tail betwixt legs, let you know.
Hope all good in your world,
HF
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"No-one has yet convinced me that this isn't a good idea."
But how do you know they're there until you're on the crossing, and how does it help the pedestrian? You have to be stationary not to run him over, and blind or inattentive not to see the road markings.
IMHO, increasing the authorities' reliance on extra road markings, mini-roundabouts, humps and surveillance is a cheap and ineffective substitute for proper road policing and maintenance. There have in fact been studies indicating that reducing road markings makes drivers more attentive and careful, as the road isn't doing the work for them.
Here on the Isle of Wight, the council (whose highways dept is headed by a non-driver!) is currently obsessed with traffic lights, which also infest a well-known central roundabout. On the odd occasions that the lights pack up, the traffic flows freely and smoothly...
We've got a pair of humped crossings, too, but as they are both at a point where you cannot realistically be doing more than 10mph, it's hard to see why.
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Only two I know of in and around orpington.perry hall road school has 20 mph limit.no humps.St Mary Cray High St 20 limit and humps though arent many who comply.at the end of the day they are a waste of time in all respects.as far as schools are concerned speed cameras should be installed.anyone going over the limit by 1mph should get a hefty fine/lose licence.just my thoughts on it
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Was mech1
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That is a good point JBJ. I guess if a driver is flying along and doesn't notice markings or speed bumps it's not going to do the pedestrian any favours anyway - which makes me wonder, why do we have the humps anyway? I guess these can only be effective if there are several along a stretch of road, as we already see outside some schools or other vulnerable areas. So to me this would mean we need more of them, not less.
Steve O, the Perry Hall Road school would really benefit from speed bumps, since so few motorists obey the 20mph limit. The small humps are pretty worthless anyway, as anyone who can judge the width between their wheels can carouse over these anyway. I guess it is tables that I would like to see more of, not unnecessary ones, just in areas that really warrant them.
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I guess if they became the norm, then people would know to slow down for all crossings. But my point really is that the only safe speed for a crossing with pedestrians on it is zero, while if there aren't pedestrians on it, there's no advantage in impeding the traffic. The crossing is there to provide a safe area to cross on a road that can be used normally the rest of the time, or should be.
Schools are another issue, I feel, where there should be special provision at the times when children arrive and depart, but it seems silly to make blanket restrictions that aren't required the other 23 hours a day. As it happens, I live near one where the council has refused us a lollipop lady because she might get run over!
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Please correct if wrong.I think the law says a pedestrian giving
enough warning to motorist his/her intention of crossing the road ie by putting one foot in the road.has right of way not motorist.problem really as has been said.no police.their should be more and doubt untill there is problem will go away no matter what humps are put in.point I made about speed cameras they can be on a timer to work when schools do.or turned on as Lollipop lady turns on speed notice as is the case in perry hall road?
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Was mech1
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"carouse over these anyway"
Things are obviously more lively in your area, HF! :-)
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JBJ basically I am agreeing with everything you say, albeit in a slightly different way.
>>As it happens, I live near one where the council has refused us a lollipop lady because she might get run over!
You're right to make an exception of schools, and I was just trying to make an exception of a few other areas where people might be more vulnerable. The fact that your council has refused a lollipop lady on those grounds speaks volumes, doesn't it?!
Steve O, you obviously know my area pretty well - and I agree, if they work, the 'school-run' mph flashers are a good idea - IF motorists abide by them. Sadly, they don't. It's terrifying to see the speeds at which vehicles speed past these signs. Only way it would work I guess is if they were backed up by either cameras (sorry for invoking the mark of the devil) or actual police - which I know is not possible, given resources. Random, known checks by police in such areas might perhaps help - I don't know.
>>"carouse over these anyway"
>>Things are obviously more lively in your area, HF! :-)
Not at all, JBJ - I've even tried this myself, as a test, and if I get the width exactly right I don't have to slow down at all. Which makes some of these bumps completely useless. Have I just contradicted the whole point of my initial post? :(
HF
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"I've even tried this myself"
What, carousing over bumps? I have a wonderful mental image of you, HF... :-)
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The thing which makes the situation in Perry Hall Road more annoying is that the 20mph zone operates only during term time, for about a hour a day in total and only extends to about 100m either side of the primary school. As such, it affects a tiny minority of the road's users and only involves them reducing their speeds by 10mph for about 30 seconds! Not exactly an onerous task one would have thought but still far too much for many it appears ! Ironically, it's the attitude and behaviour of all those drivers who ignore limits like these which forces the introduction of more draconain measures (like humps) that they then spend their lives whingeing about. It's easy really, observe the limit and there'll be no need or demand for humps.
Steve-O (?) the variable 20mph limit signs are in fact computer controlled. Also PHR forms part of the A208 and IIRC it is/was this designation which restricts the traffic calming options available and precludes the use of humps. Hence, no humps in PHR but humps in St Mary Cray High Street.
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