I think Philomeena was referring to the potential damage to the car's steering, wheels and tyres from bumping up the kerb. Yes - this practice can cause considerable damage. It can cause misalignment, hidden and dangerous damage to tyres, and damage and distortion to alloy wheels.
More serious though is the damage caused to blind people, parents with pushchairs, the disabled, children with heads at door mirror height, and then of course everybody else who has to negotiate the cracked and uneven paving slabs that result. The practice is illegal and should be stamped out.
When I lived in London and had to squeeze past a pavement parker with a wheelchair I took especial grim satisfaction if I accidentally scraped a door. Also offenders should be aware that it is perfectly legal to walk over the top of a car that is obstructing the pavement.
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" Also offenders should be aware that it is perfectly legal to walk over the top of a car that is obstructing the pavement."
And, presumably, sue the owner if you fall off and injure yourself?
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We have two contrasting examples of kerbing idiocy in my street. My neighbour's daughter's boyfriend delights in coming screaming in to the street, thumping up on to the kerb and parking with about 1" of tyre on the kerb, the rest hanging in free air. I only hope she is not in the car when the tyre or suspension fails at speed.
We also have someone who insists in parking a large box-van in the street who seems incapable of parking within a foot of the kerb. Indeed, one day you could only just get a car through the gap and the bin motor was unable to collect our rubbish. I hate to think what would have happened if anyone had needed an ambulance or fire engine... The one time I have seen him park on the kerb, he chose the part where the path is very narrow and he was actually touching the hedge...
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In our town, some months ago the council marked parking bays along the side of a long straigh 30mph stretch trying to encourage people to park in them, instead of on the grass. The idea was to use parked cars as an obstruction, to reduce speeding.
Hardly surprisingly, few people took the bait.
Now I notice, the grass is a designated no parking area, patrolled by wardens day and night, and the road a cluttered mess as a result.
Has it slowed speeds?
No, not a chance, and as a pedestrian I have seen two very near misses with puchairs being pushed out in to the traffic ahead of a mother. How the second one missed I will never know, because the driver (not obviously speeding on this occasion) had to jink to the right just as a juggernaut was rumbling along in the other direction.
Having parked cars as an obstruction also sometimes encourages drivers to speed up, to nip past before whatever is coming the other way.
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I hate to think what would havehappened if anyone had needed an ambulance or fire engine...
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Precisely why we actually have to park on the kurb where we live at the moment. It's a complex of blocks of flats which must contain around three hundred flats, with access roads running through and around it. As it was built in the 50s when not so many people had cars, there are only about 10 parking spaces, which are almost permanently occupied by people who never actually seem to use their cars so the spaces are never free! Due to the fact that most of the lower levels are owned by social services, the chances are much greater of an ambulance, fire engine or hearse needing to get through, than a buggie, pram or wheelchair.
But am I right in thinking that the access roads and those which run around the complex would actually be classed as private roads and I couldn't be prosecuted for parking on the kurb there anyway? Hmm.
To answer the original question - I have to get my wheel alignment and tracking checked much more often then I did when I parked on my parents' driveway! All that bumping up and down the kurb isn't doing Polo any good but there's no other option, as I've seen first hand that fire engines will just attempt to drive through anything in their way, and I would hate to think that preserving my car's tyres had caused an obstruction to an ambulance.
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why is it then that certain borough's in London (and I am sure elsewhere) paint parking bays half on the road and half on the pavement. In particualr Wandsworth are quite keen on this.
One thing that really gets my goat is people parking & driving on grass and churning it up.
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The pavements (technically - footpaths) are quite wide in my road whereas the carriageway is only just enough for two average car widths so all us residents parked half on the pavement for years. It must be for at least the decade I've lived here.
Council said it was illegal. Residents make a fuss.
3 months later and for goodness knows how much money, we all still park just as before but we now have little white dotted lines all over the place and sign posts telling us where the permission to park on the pavement starts and where it finishes.
A few thousand pounds well spent! Really good value there don't you think?
Then, whenever the footpath is dug up for cable TV or whatever they come back to join up the (missing) dots with white paint.
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Precisely why we actually have to park on the kurb where we live at the moment
Is the wrong answer!
You don't HAVE to park on the kerb, because it's an offence and especially because it inconveniences people who are supposed to be on the pavement. There's lots of talk about keeping people off the roads where they are a danger to motorists, but if you don't allow people on the pavement either where can they go? For an answer to this, look at Los Angles...
If the road isn't wide enough to park AND accomodate traffic, don't park there.
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There is a road near where I live where everyone parks half on the pavement and half on the road, both sides, because they have done for as long as anyone can remember and because it's the obvious, logical thing to do. It's a very quiet street. No one ever gets knocked over. No one complains. everyone gets on with their lives. I realise this is fairly unusual.
HJ
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HJ, it won't be long before some council jobsworth tells them all it's illegal. Then they'll spend a few thousand of your money on signs and white dotted lines to make it legal just like in my road.
Madness.
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Our houses were all built in the late sixties and early seventies. They all have long drives with garages, some at the rear - like mine - others an integral part of the house.
The latest craze here is to convert the garages into living areas and leave the cars outside on the pavement, even when there is ample room to park on the driveway. My near neighbours never put their cars in their garages, and a guy around the corner has converted his garage into a bar. The whole of his front garden has been paved and a wall erected with wrought iron gates on both entrances. His 04 Nissan Terrano is parked outside, half on the pavement.
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The biggest risk arises from the habit of driving up onto the pavement and off again, and the forcing of pedestrians into the road when parked fully. One of our banks has responded to an accident involving injury to infant. Whilst on urgent errand to get cash from dispenser, car ran into pram on pavement. Applied bollards to the edge of the pavement. This generally works well, but elsewhere all is as before, as our local police think pavement parking is NOT an offence. Their alternative excuse for sloth is that the magistrates want proof that the driver was seen to mount the pavement, which is said to be the offence. In absence of proof positive that said vehicle was not deposited as a result of a flood, or had not fallen from the sky, case is usually dismissed.
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Earlier this week a contingent of coppers (two male, one female) parked their Panda safely in a side road and converged on a car parked at a crazy angle on the zebra crossing zigzags bang outside the newsagents. Word spread inside the newsagents and an extremely ancient lady finally cottoned they has come for her. She slowly made her way outside to face her ordeal. I\'m happy to say humanity triumphed. Having realised the old lady could hardly walk, the most senior police officer quietly and unthreateningly reminded her of the error of her ways and let her go. Had they been so inclined, the three police officers could have then walked round the corner and done the owners of at least forty cars. But they didn\'t. Common sense prevailed. However, had the miscreant been a lazy tub of lard parked on the zigags so he/she didn\'t have to walk in order to buy his/her 60 fags for the day, then if the police officers had come down on him/her with the full force of the law, I\'m afraid I might have quietly applauded.
HJ
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Well I'm sorry folks but I think this is all another fuss about nothing, something the BR excels in from time to time (amidst other genuinely useful and excellent threads). I often park 2 wheels on the pavement - the car has never been damaged, no-one has ever moaned and the blind people who walk up and down the road once every 10 years seem to negotiate their way much in the same way as they do the kerb and several trees which have rather inconsiderately planted themselves on the pavement...
However, my mother visited the other day, parked 'properly' and got biffed in the side by a reversing neighbour opposite who quipped "Why can't she park on the pavement like everyone else?" before reluctantly passing on insurance details.
Splodgeface
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I have had my car badly scratched, probably by the handlebars of a childs bicycle. Nothing wrong with that. The child was on the pavement, and so was I. I try to avoid it now, especially on council estates, where there seem to be lots of children.
One of my workmates was ticketed by the police for pavement parking in a nearby side street while attending a function. He complained that he had carefully parked that way to enable other people to get by in their cars. I asked him whether he had consulted the people living in the houses who needed to get by with their prams.
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My mother lives at the junction of a wide road and a cul-de-sac. The latter is wide enough for two vehicles to pass if free of cars, but there really isn't room to park on both sides.
Until a couple of years ago the pavements had grass verges, which were regularly churned up by inconsiderate drivers parking half on the pavement. An elderly neighbour launched a one woman campaign against the parkers by regularly complaining to the police (who said it was a matter for the council) and to the council. To deter the parkers, she placed stones and bricks on the edges of some of the grass verges. This brought her threats of legal action by the car owners and acts of petty vandalism to her house.
The council could have protected the pavements by placing bollards at the corner, painting double yellow lines on one side of the road, or simply enforcing the law. Instead they removed the grass verges and tarmacced the whole pavement. Perhaps they thought that the only reason for the complaints was the unslightly state of the grass.
Now it's easier to park on the pavements and the drivers who avoided parking there because they didn't want to churn up the grass no longer have this to deter them. Needless to say, the problem is far worse. The houses don't have front gardens and it's common for my mother's view through the window to be blocked by a van or 4WD vehicle parked on the pavement three feet away. Even if you ignore the fact that these vehicles are parked on the pavement, the owners are breaking the law by being within 10 metres of a junction and by reversing over the pavement to join the major road. Access to my mother's garage is often prevented by a drivers parking on the pavement either side of the entrance and on the road opposite, leaving no room to turn in or out.
Needless to say, there's always plenty of space to park on the wider road. To blame is the belief that owning a property gives you the right to use a stretch of road within sight of it. People cling to this even when they own two or three vehicles.
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Well I'm sorry folks but I think this is all another fuss about nothing, I often park 2 wheels on the pavement - the car has never been damaged...
Ask anyone who's ever had to pay sever hundred pounds for a door respray if it's a fuss about nothing. You could also ask any parent who's had to push their pram into the road to go around a car if it's nothing too.
Feel free to write your opinion (as I have) but be aware there are others who can see it from another angle.
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Gareth whether or not you approve of my right to post makes little difference to the argument.
On the face of it, your response is difficult to pin down. On the one hand you seem to be concerned about the plight of car owners who, having parked up on the pavement, have incurred some unfortunate damage to the car. Well, isn?t that the risk they take by parking there in the first place? I don?t deny it is probably less than legal, as indeed it is to drive at more than 70mph on the motorway ? but I guess there are few backroomers who have a clear conscience on that count.
On the other hand you defend the plight of the parent with push chair. The fact remains that there are some quiet residential roads where parking on the pavement makes some sense ? our road is narrow with some sharp bends but decent pavements on both sides ? several members of the neighbourhood do it. I don?t deny that certain members of society might have to take a 50 cm diversion to avoid the parked car, just like they do with the trees which grow out of the pavement in our street, the lamp posts also inconsiderately placed, not to mention the wheely bins which sit there for most of every Monday. But I cannot see how it can cause such trauma as to warrant a thread like this. I am a parent and have negotiated all the obstacles - the parked cars, the trees, wheely bins and lamp posts - with remarkable ease, still remaining on the pavement. I have suffered no ill-effects, traumas to date.
I recognise that my opinion is at odds with nearly all the others in this thread and that is precisely why I posted. I simply think that there are better things to be worried about than the odd car parked up on a pavement.
Splodgeface
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Splodgeface, your opinion isn't at odds with mine, simply because you acknowledge that there are some side streets where parking on the pavement is no problem and other streets where it is a problem. Whatever the law may be, applying it to every street is just plain stupid, which is why people who are not stupid do not apply it to every street.
HJ
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I don't have a massive amount of knowledge of Germany but most of the cities I have visited mark parking bays half on the road half on the pavement wherever they can, similar to the comment by a previous poster.
Logical sensible and none of the car hating attitude that seems so common in the UK.
But then life is easier to live almost everywhere on the continent especialy as a motorist.
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I'm with you, Splodge. On my street most people have started parking with two wheels just on the pavement, and it makes the road a very welcome 18" wider. No one speeds down there, but it does mean I get through considerably fewer wing mirrors.
The suggestion of "park elsewhere" is fine if there is somewhere else to park, but I live in an area where all the roads are like that. None of the houses (being well over 100 years old) have garages or driveways and the roads are narrow. No one has a problem with it.
One day my car may be scratched by a child's bike or a pram or whatever, but it's been hit about four times now when _not_ parked slightly on the pavement, so I'm happy to play the odds.
Much more of a problem is the enormous overhanging bush up the road which forces people to walk on the road, and the wheelie bins which some people leave there all week.
-Mark
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I'd rather see the status of the pavement/footway re-asserted as the proper domain of the pedestrian (i.e. excluding cyclists) and then invite local authorities to make formal exceptions -- with appropriate markings -- in those localities where it is genuinely necessary to break the general rule. This is already done in some areas in the UK. I've seen too many pushchairs and wheelchairs forced onto the road to accept a more casual approach.
And it's time for the lunatic law to be changed so that it hinges on the presence of a vehicle on the footway, not the act of moving it onto the footway.
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Camden Council in London will give you a ticket for one or more wheels on the pavement the instant you turn the engine off.
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Last saturday we walked into town and after having to walk around cars parked on the pavement and i mean right on the pavement I had had enough. I smacked in everydoor mirror regardless of whether anyone was inside.
Last night we went for a walk and met a man with a baby in a buggy and two small children. he had to wait until the little ones could safely walk around a large rover parked on the pavement the road is not that busy but cars speed down there and who knows what may have happened. why did selfish rover driving fool find it necessary to block the pavement? whoops sorry was that your mirror?
Find somewhere else to park. you have legs don't you?
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Nice one, bugged - that's just what we needs, vigilanties inflicting criminal damage on the property of people who behave in a way they don't like.
It irritates me when people get in busy lifts which are going upwards when they want to go down. I will certainly be sure to tear their shirts next time they do it.
-Mark
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bugged by name, bugged by nature...
Isn't there something more important to worry about? You must lead a stress-laden life...
Think about it, wilful criminal damage to other people's property puts you in the same (if not worse) category as the owners of all those cars.
Splodgeface
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Think about it, wilful criminal damage to other people's property puts you in the same (if not worse) category as the owners of all those cars.
Er, aren't mirrors designed to fold inwards? Where's the criminal damage in that?
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Terry
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> Er, aren't mirrors designed to fold inwards? Where's the
> criminal damage in that?
I didn't interpret...
> I smacked in everydoor mirror
...to mean "I folded in every door mirror".
Some fold, others don't.
Even ones which do fold or are sprung and flick back can be damaged by being hit. (Had that many times.)
-Mark
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Think about it, wilful criminal damage to other people's property puts you in the same (if not worse) category as the owners of all those cars.
...and if said owner catches you in the act, and is of a disagreeable frame of mind, you could very well end up getting thumped, or the police would be called. Personally I'd leave well alone.
(And yes, as I recall, criminal damage does indeed carry greater penalties than parking on the pavement.)
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Has to be said.. if I was sat in my car and someone purposely 'smacked' my mirrors back, they would get a 'smack' themselves.
(providing I was bigger than them obviously!)
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Has to be said.. if I was sat in my car and someone purposely 'smacked' my mirrors back, they would get a 'smack' themselves. (providing I was bigger than them obviously!)
Not a good idea. Unless the person who pushed back the mirrors damaged them in the process, you could then expect a charge of assault to be added to whatever penalty was available for parking on the pavement.
Most of the street is given over to cars, and only a small proportion remains for pedestrians (who outnumber the car occupants on many streets). If you park on the pavement, you are using the muscle of a ton of metal to grab a chunk of that small remaining pedestrian space ... and if someone reclaims a little bit of what you have grabbed, surely the approporiate response is a simple "sorry"? (followed by putting your car back where it belongs, on the road)
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This thread started silly and is getting worse. Why get so heated about a couple of motionless wheels on the pavement?! Assault? Smacking in mirrors? What next? Hate to see what happens when something REALLY annoying happens.
Over and out. Please put a lock on this thread!
Splodgeface
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Why get so heated about a couple of motionless wheels on the pavement?!
Splogeface, borrow a wheelcair for a week. Try negotiating your wheelchair of the kerb, onto the road, out around the car through the traffic, and then back up on the kerb.
Then repeat several times a day for a week, while you also cope with all the rest of the joys of life in a wheelcair.
Then we could have an intersting discussion about whether it's something to get heated about
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Is this thread going anywhere or shall I do as splodgeface suggests and lock it ?
It seems pretty pointless at the moment.
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What the thread exposes is strong feelings and views about an issue affecting nearly everyone, motorist or not. That says to me that the practice needs better regulation and proper enforcement, whether that goes in favour of more parking on the pavement or less. Do nothing (sadly, the most likely future) and the inconsiderate will aggravate even more those who are inclined to retaliate -- yet another crucible of petty social disorder, as if we didn't have enough of it already.
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oooohhh look what i did, sorry.
I pushed the mirror in, I didnt whack it with a baseball bat, whether id liked to have done or not. I didnt damaged it either.
maybe just maybe the idiot whose car it was may think as he has to get out and go round and pop it back into position that he might have caused people to walk into a fairly busy road rather that walking on the pavement.
Usually I do nothing on this occasion I did something because I was annoyed that a man with three small kids had to walk them all into the road to get round a illegally parked car. Also the fact that we had to squeeze past him, What would have happened if a wheelchair user had to get by???
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> I pushed the mirror in
In that case, bugged, I'm sorry for suggesting you damaged it. Nothing immoral about pushing the mirror in - quite possibly doing the car owner a favour in fact by preventing his mirror from being accidentally whacked. People have folded mine in in a car park before - much rather they did that than even risk clouting it.
-Mark
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Thats o.k.
I wouldnt cause criminal damage to someones property any more than I would ram someone out the way for driving too slow.
I have read what people wrote in this thread carefully, I expect at times, I do get bugged about stuff that is really stupid and not at all important. I will try to let stuff go. e.g the subaru driver on the m25 the other morning who dangerously undertook me and another car who had moved out to let another vehicle onto the motorway from the slip road. I bet he felt a right fool 2 mins later when we were all stuck in a huge traffic jam.
Its not worth getting cross about. There will always be idiots on the road the same as there will always be people who get annoyed by them. I am trying to chill a bit more and let people get on with it. Is it worth the raised blood pressure or risk of an accident? NO!
I am not aggressive when I drive but others stupidity and lack of courtesy annoys me. I will take a deep breath and count to ten and remember sometimes i might annoy other people.
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I've taken up running recently partly as a challenge to my failing body and partly to raise sponsorship for a charity 10K event.
At the end of a recent training run I was staggering home and was really glad that the Jag S- type mirror folded back without causing any pain, as I lurched into it.
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I wasna fu but just had plenty.
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