I've recently been researching a family car to replace one of our two hatchbacks, I've found the advice on this forum very helpful, but so sensible Im changing my mind too often (not that Im complaining)
Anyway, before I do a 'What car' post, I wanted to know why family cars Ive seen (non mpv's) come with 2 rear adult seats and a very uncomfortable middle 'bit'?
Why cant the manufacturers do an optional extra for 3 proper seats in the back but moulded to kiddy proportions?
Until recently (maxi cosy being on the front seat) I cant remember the last time I travelled in the back so 3 comfortable kiddy size cushions would be no loss to the adults in our family.
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Peugeot and Citroen figured out long ago how to make cars without a huge fat transmision tunnel, so that adults sitting in the middle of the back seat have somewhere to put their feet.
Other makers seem not to have learnt the trick, so maybe they are trying to discourage people from trying to sit in the middle?
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Peugeot and Citroen figured out long ago how to make cars without a huge fat transmision tunnel, so that adults sitting in the middle of the back seat have somewhere to put their feet.
Isn't it called "Front Wheel Drive"?
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See road test of new Focus at www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm
which specifically mentions this.
A Honda Covic is also good by virtue of a completely flat floor in the back.
HJ
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I can recall cars that had 3 good seats in the front too. It was achieved with a bench seat and a column gear change, and the engine and gearbox under the bonnet not inside the car.. Now all the space is filled up with hi fi cabinets and tape storage and cars are getting smaller again.
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Not sure I yearn for the days of the front bench seat but some cars now seem to be doing away with much of the gubbins which used to occupy the space between the 2 front seats. The Honda Civic is one and the Hyundai Trajet (I think) another.
Getting back to the original point of this thread, one of the things we have found we do now we've got a 7 seater is to use the rear seats (which offer more space than the middle 3) if we're carrying 3 adult passengers. Although the middle row of seats are all the same size, they don't allow as much shoulder room for larger passengers so having say 2 adults in the middle and 1 at the back is far more comfortable for everyone. For children, however, the middle three seats are more than sufficient on their own and this is a useful feature of MPV's.
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HJ,
Please tell me there's going to be a saloon - I'm looking at the road test and can't see one....
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Adam
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You mean a Focus saloon. Yesterday I was waiting at a small airport in Italy at the end of another Ford launch and I just happened to look out of the window to see a new Focus saloon being driven into the Ford tent. By then we were locked in 'airside' so could not get out to get a better look, but on first sight it looks 'right' and is far smarter than the awful old Focus saloon.
HJ
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Woah - hold on a minute HJ! Hold on one minute- what's so awful about the current saloon? ;-) I bought a saloon for the very reason that I thought it looked better than the hatch. Taking that into afcount, would I like the new saloon if our opinions differ so much?
Also, I saw a pic of the Concept Saloon which I thought looked...delightful to be honest.
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Adam
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I have to agree with HJ, the old Focus saloon looks awful. On the other hand, the saloon version of the Megane looks much better than the hatchback.
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I think Ford are following VW in properly styling their saloon versions of their hatchback.
The Jetta looked as if the boot was added as an after thought but the Bora does not.
Although I would prefer the Focus 4 door to the hatch the existing saloon does look like it has an added on boot.
From the pictures I have seen the new Focus looks much better.
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Like HJ, I don't like the looks of the old focus saloon. But I reckon the new one looks better than the new hatch, which I think is a bit of a mishmash -- even worse in the flesh than in photos.
If you missed the spyhots, they are at:
www.channel4.com/4car/gallery/spy-shots-2004/F/for...l
and
www.channel4.com/4car/gallery/spy-shots-2004/F/for...l
(mods, sorry if those links are inappropriate)
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Damn - I was hoping it was going to look like the American 2005 ZX4. It still could I suppose:
www.focusmania.com/ST_Sedan_Boven_Achterkant.jpg
I don't like the looks of the old focus saloon<<
Don't worry NW, if ever you need a lift, I won't hold a grudge ;-)
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Adam
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>> Peugeot and Citroen figured out long ago how to make cars >> without a huge fat transmision tunnel, so that adults >> sitting in the middle of the back seat have somewhere to >> put their feet. Isn't it called "Front Wheel Drive"?
It should be!
But I've been in lots of FWD cars which still have something that looks like a transmision tunnel, whereas Peugeot & Citroen can make a nearly flat floor in front of the rear seat.
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It's because some people think that unless they are sitting in the back seat with their child, some terrible mishap will befall them (the child).
When they have their second child and there's not enough room for two kids and an adult across the back they realise that the vast majority of small children are perfectly OK travelling in their car seat in the back without constant surveillance from mum or dad.
There are also people who don't have children but might need to carry more than two adults in the car at once. OR even people with children who need to carry two adults in the car at once without the children present.
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Matthew Kelly
No, not that one.
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What if I want to carry the driver, 2 adult passengers, a child, and a baby (with all the accoutrements) and all their luggage (for a 10 days UK holiday, say), without anybody being cramped, but I *don't* want a people-carrier (7, 6, OR 5 seater) ?
An estate is ok provided its ride is still ok when unladen, and no noisier than the hatch version.
Is it a question of width across the back seat? Is the mk2 Mondeo particularly generous in its class in this regard?
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Berlingo (not a people carrier - it'a a van!!!)
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My point was that I dont want, and probably never will carry adults in the back.
We have 3 kids and they are not allowed in the front, so two are forced into adult seats and one on a very uncomfortable 'bit' in the middle.
Even with the tunnel I cant see why mfrs cant provide a reasonable shaped padding in the middle and narrow the two adult seats and offer it as an optional extra or even an accessory.
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I totally agree.
I wanted to buy a Honda Accord Tourer Diesel. Took the car for a drive, loved the engine, Exec specification very luxurious. I got in touch with a broker and got some great prices. All was going well until....
I took my wife and 3 children to the showroom. SWMBO was comfortable enough up front but the middle child was most uncomfortable.
So, I was back in MPV land and bought a Touran which can seat everyone and their friends in comfort!
Maybe the problem is that manufacturers are trying to seat four adults in luxury hence the moulded seats to prevent the boss in the rear seat from being thrown around as the thrusting young executive shows off the road holding of his rep-mobile.
I guess it is all a question of marketing. How many families of 5 require non-MPV transportation these days?
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What is "non-MPV transportation" ?
I'd have a Berlingo if it wasn't as tall (wasted excessive headroom) - it ought then to handle better, have a higher top speed, and better fuel economy.
Note to Citroen (and any other manufacturers listening):
Take the back seats from the Berlingo and put them in a C4 estate, along with squared-up bodywork for the rear, luggage area, and a near-vertical tailgate.
There. No need for the Picasso now unless you're of restricted mobility.
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a near-vertical tailgate.
I think that there is some new law banning those. Estate cars now have sloping tailgates and a roofline which falls away towards the back :(
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I guess it is all a question of marketing. How many families of 5 require non-MPV transportation these days?
I think a few people, including myself, would like to have the choice of a saloon that would seat five people in comfort.
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I think a few people, including myself, would like to have the choice of a saloon that would seat five people in comfort.
Sorry, not possible. Your choices now are:
* saloon that probably only seats two adults, unless those in the back carry their heads on their laps
* Hatchback, similar to the saloon, but with less luggage space cos they chopped off most the tail when they added the gate to it. Heads still on lap.
* estate car with pathetically truncated load bay, because it is not designed to carry a family's clobber. It just takes a few brightly-coloured bags for shiny people with an "active lifestyle" who spend their time driving to sunny beaches and pristine ski resorts.
* MPV/MSV/UAV/(insert meaningless-acronym) type vehicle with enough height to wear a top hat inside while you stand up on stilts, but nowhere near as much luggage space as a real estate car.
Of course, this must be progress...
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