Women at a disadvantage - hmm, no surprises there.
I'm not sure a licensing scheme would be the way forward. Instead, more action from the regulatory bodies assessing work and focusing on garages that are the subject of disproportionate number of complaints to Trading Standards etc would be better IMO.
This method would allow good garages to pursue their legitamate businesses with minimum interference, but resources would be targeted towards problem outfits, rather than the whole industry. Coupled with other bodies such as the HSE and the Inland Revenue, you would probably find that many of these rogueoutfits will come to the attention of all three!
With a licensing scheme you can't guarantee that standards won't slip after the license has been awarded and then be corrected prior to reassessment.
If the govt want to anything extra, an arbitration system for consumers would be a great idea. This would be used when all attempts to negotiate with the garage over the issue had failed. This would exclude MOT tests (these are covered by the DoT) but include all other work.
Hugo
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Need part of trading standards dedicated to the industry. Fill that department with people who'll really investigate properly any sniff of con-artistry, and give them the power to come down like a tonne of bricks on any dishonesty.
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After 28 years of motoring and watching the motor trades antics, I'm convinced that the motor trade in the UK have always had the Government in their pockets and it is unlikely that anything will ever be done about the rip-offs and scams that occur.
However, part of this is down to the manufacturers, who force the dealers to create plush showrooms and buy expensive special tools, but at the same time slash the margins on selling new cars, forcing the lions share of revenue to come from vastly inflated labour charges.
I always drive a car which is still under the manufacturers warranty, so I have to go to these dealers. I know there is a resolution to allow warranty upkeep while servicing is done at independants, but I believe that if anything does go wrong in the warranty period, the main dealers will go into maximum obstructive mode when you try to claim. In fact I was told as much by our local SaaB dealership !
We are one of the only countries in Europe where you can see the age of the car at a glance, a scenario which has been hieghtened by the Bi-annual registration changes we have now. This is another cynical attempt to continually stimulate the motor trade !
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Mate of mine went to collect his car to be told that a new water pump had had to be fitted due to the extensive wear on the ''old''one. Quite a shock for the bloke who gave the bill out as my mate had just fitted a new one the week before and wasn,t shy of telling him , (he worked in engineering so knew a bit.....lots of backpedaling from garage and no charge!
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Timing of this smacks of yet another pre-election puff from HMG siezing on an popular issue to pretend they actually care.
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Its also an excuse for yet more civil service to be employed
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I read often, only post occasionally
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I actually think its about time the car repair industry was given a thorough overhaul.
Having worked in the repair industry I can tell you that there are far too many rogues, villains and plain incompetent repairers out there.
Some of the things I seen are absolutely disgraceful - especially from franchised dealerships who I've seen knowingly rip-off customers (and seen staff who are actually proud of it).
The technical knowledge of some service technicians is very poor, so faults are misdiagnosed at great expense to the customer. In many cases (especially with electronic faults) the repairer will simply replace components on a 'poke and hope' basis, at the customers expense.
We urgently need proper training and regulation. I would also like to see mandatory 8-year warranty on emissions-related components (as per US). To those that say this will cost a lot of money, then so be it. Other countries manage it - and charge lower labour costs than we do.
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Boils down to the financial commintment for a modern glass and chrome dealership. Someone has to stump up over a million for the building and equipment, which means a big loan, probably spread over 10 years. That's got to be paid back, and, since profits have become slimmer from selling new and used cars, the main way it is paid back is out of the ludicrous labour charges for servicing and repairs and the obscene profits on parts and sundries. After 10 years, once his customers have paid off his loan for him, the owner of the dealership is sitting on a substantial asset which he can either use to raise finance for other projects or retire on to a golf course on the Costa del Sol.
HJ
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If the dealers are going to charge ludicrous labour rates then they should at least ensure that their technicians are properly trained and can do routine diagnosis. These days there is too much reliance on the electronic diagnostic tool - the technician is treated as an unskilled monkey.
I recently replied to a Technical thread where a dealer had replaced a MAF sensor on a Nissan QX (a £500 part) because the engine didn't fast idle properly after start up. This was obviously not going to rectify the fault, but I guess the dealer just sits back and says 'bad luck' - leaving the customer with the fault and potentially more expense to look forward to.
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"If the dealers are going to charge ludicrous labour rates then they should at least ensure that their technicians are properly trained and can do routine diagnosis. These days there is too much reliance on the electronic diagnostic tool - the technician is treated as an unskilled monkey."
All down to the loss of the Apprentice schemes.
Where are all the young trainee mechanics, brickies, plumbers, sparks, toolmakers, doing their 4 years on the job training?
All at second rate universtities doing second rate degrees in second rate subjects that have no use or relevance for todays requirements.
Thats why we pay big money for skilled craftsmen (if you can get them we end up with bodge boys who do a crash course)
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Where are all the young trainee mechanics, brickies, plumbers, sparks, toolmakers, doing their 4 years on the job training?
Not sure about some of the other trades, but most of the motor trade is reluctant to take on trainees - they see them as a 'cost' rather than an 'investment'. If you read the trade journals there are often letters from youngsters who want to get an apprenticeship but despite contacting numerous dealers there are none on offer. Most trade employers want 'oven ready' technicians who they can put straight on the job. I did an apprenticeship but that was in the family business - that's still the best way to get one these days, if you're lucky enough!
I have a builder friend who's son wants to be a plumber - he can't get anyone to take him on, despite his dad knowing loads of the local plumbers. There is a shortage of newcomers into plumbing, but they seem happy to keep it that way.....
Taking a shot at universities is becoming all too common these days - but at the end of the day a degree is required for entry to so many professions (nursing, teaching, business & HR, pharmacy etc.). This is a requirement set by employers, so you can hardly blame the youngsters for responding to it. Remember it was the CBI, not the government, who originally came up with a target of 50% of young people going to university. I guess their members wanted a large pool of graduate labour to pick from in order to keep graduate pay down. This has worked, but with the unintended consequence of forcing up craft labour rates.
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Does the car repair industry differ that much from any other trade though? Plumbers & electricians are just as bad and rip people off just as much. They've had accreditation for years and it doesn't seem to have reduced the rogue levels.
The woeful level of diagnostic ability is what I notice most if I stupidly take the car to a main dealer. The independent garage I use are much, much better at working out what has gone wrong. If they don't fix it then they don't charge me either which is how it is supposed to be.
The only reason people take their cars to a franchise and pay their extortionate rate is the new car warranty and the implied threat that if they don't get their car serviced there if anything breaks there will be no good will from the manufacturer. Take that restriction and discrimmination away and the franchises will have to buck their ideas up. If the manufacturers start whining this then they will have to start making cars idiot proof to repair :-)
The manufacturers are also at fault as they place so many restrictions and deliberately make equipment expensive to buy and to keep up to date. Citroen are making parts that will only fit one particular vehicle so that you can't keep in a stock and swap out suspect ones to aid diagnosis. The whole industry wants the equivalent of open source software to give it a good kicking really.
teabelly
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One other reason the big franchises can get away with it is the company car market and its structure. Our leasing company will not deal with independents (as far as I know) so it's back to the main dealer for everything except tyres and exhausts.
Although they probably get ripped off less than individuals I have still had to deal with some woeful dealers in the past (nothing but praise for my current SAAB dealer but I can't comment on their prices because I never see them).
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As an example, I got quoted £225 plus vat for some welding at a Seat franchised dealer. Got the work done by an independant for £20 (including welding rods and 10 mins labour)
The original quoet for welding seemed ridiculously high, but how mnany people would have fallen for it?
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The SEAT dealer probably would have called in the £20 guy and pocketted the other £205. :-)
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news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4409799.stm
"The image of the dodgy car dealer has more than a grain of truth in it, says Honest John, the Daily Telegraph's motoring agony uncle. But there are complex reasons behind it."
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I can vouch for that! I took my non-starting polo to a VW dealership a while back and they sat on it for around 4 days, plugging into various computers which didn't find anything that might be causing the problem. In the meantime, I had been doing some reading (not being the most mechanically minded individual) and found out that a likely cause was that the fuel filter needed replacing. I phoned up and suggested they tried this and they basically said that they hadn't tried it because it would cost around £20 even if this wasn't the cause. I suggested they did it instead of charging me a further £50 an hour for labour charges while they investigate and half an hour later my car was ready for collection. I find it incredibly disconcerting that the end cost was £180 for this seemingly simple repair!
~J
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I find it incredibly disconcerting that the end cost was £180 for this seemingly simple repair!
Me too. I also find it absolutely disgusting.
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"I find it incredibly disconcerting that the end cost was £180 for this seemingly simple repair!"
Me, too. One would expect the services of a competent technician who is familiar with Polo problems for £50 ph, and not someone who needs advice from the customer. Maybe you should bill them £100 for your expert advice.
They do have some integrity. An experienced rip-off merchant would never have admitted that it was the fuel filter, but blamed a defective swash plate gamma-sensor or some such; and then charged you for a new one.
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I forgot to say that in my four short years of owning and running cars, I have also had to take one garage to court (successfully, thanks to help from back roomers!) and threaten to take another to court in order to get anything like a decent level of service from them! There was yet another occasion where I would have taken a third garage to court but decided I didn't have enough evidence to continue. I am a reasonable guy and I accept that mistakes can happen, but it's the way a lot of garages deal with their mistakes that upsets me. Perhaps I am unlucky, or perhaps something seems to be done? It doesn't seem to be limited to main dealers either. I have had bad experiences with independents and fast-fit chains too.
~J
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