Actually, bbroomlea, Italians don't buy so many FIATs any more. Have you been to Italy recently?
HJ
|
|
Well now after the sad demise of rover - does this meant that the british constabulary will now be purchasing TVRs as they are now the only mass manufacturer of cars left in the UK?
|
TVR are no longer British - some russian oil baron now owns them.
Can you just imagine the boys in blue in a Morgan?
|
|
ok i'll hold my hands up i was wrong on that one - the mighty Trevor is not british after all - but it would be amusing seeing the boys and girls of her majesties constabulary poddling about in aero 8s!!!
|
I'm fairly certain that morgan are now the biggest volume purely british car manufacturer.
|
|
Unless some1 says otherwise i believe you blue - i've just got this image of the police in morgan areo 8s - hold on just a tick is westfield not bigger? and british or am i being stupid?
|
Unless some1 says otherwise i believe you blue - i've just got this image of the police in morgan areo 8s - hold on just a tick is westfield not bigger? and british or am i being stupid?
They're definately british but i've got a feeling as they are technically a kit car manufacturer they don't count
|
The largest British owned vehicle manufacturer is Triumph Motorcycles. Revived in the late eighties and inheriting a name that was every bit as tarnished as BL they overcame that image with machines that were rock solid for reliability and have built a reputation for looking after their customers that matches any of the Japanese companies.
When they had problems a few years ago with a handful of frames on the Daytona showing stress fractures around the steering head they immediately recalled every model and not only fitted new frames but upgraded the earlier models to the latest spec, all free of charge. That hurt the company financilly at the time, but it has paid long term dividends as you will not here a single word in the bike press questioning the quality of Triumph products. They are widely regarded as matching even Honda in that department and are increasing their market share year on year as a result.
That proves the British public are willing to buy home produced products, but only if the manufacturer gets it right and doesn't rely on patriotism to try and survive. If Rover had gone in with the same attitude, it would still be here now.
|
|
|
|
|
The Police ditched British made motors years ago, unless the ownership of Ford, Volvo and BMW has changed..
|
|
|
|
|
"Can you just imagine the boys in blue in a Morgan?"
Probably not; they would not be able to carry enough anti-motoring devices. I certainly hope so, because such a situation would tend to blacken the image of Morgan with sporting motorists, including prospective customers.
I do not think one should call Morgans kit cars; you can't buy a set of bits, only the completed car. Anyway, the three-wheeler appeared at the Olympia Motor Cycle Show in 1910 and they are still going strong. It is a pity some other people did not pay more attention to customers, and got too big for their boots and let themselves be wrecked by the unions - like, admittedly, a lot of UK manufacturing industry. Long may Morgan succeed. (I must renew my Littlewood's subscription!)
|
|
|
|
|
Actually, bbroomlea, Italians don't buy so many FIATs any more. Haveyou been to Italy recently? HJ
I think Fiat may be the next to go, it can't be long now as they have dropped 11 % this year in Italy and 14% in Europe. They only have 25% of the Italian market now, lost 38% of sales in the UK so far this year.
10 years ago they had the best selling car in Europe, but years of making unreliable cars has caught up with them. I learnt to drive in a punto, very roomy inside, looked ok, but it took longer than expected because it was always off the road being repaired.
It will be interesting to see what the Italian government does because the head of Fiat is well in with the Italian PM.
|
The Mail on Sunday carries a story today that Patricia Hewitt missed last week's meeting in Birmingham attended by Tony Bliar and Gordon Brown with Rover representatives because her ministerial car wouldn't start.
It was one of the just six Rovers, an 800, used for the purpose in what is a big fleet; the driver got so exasperated trying to start it that he broke the key off in the ignition...:-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
It was one of the just six Rovers, an 800, used for the purpose in what is a big fleet; the driver got so exasperated trying to start it that he broke the key off in the ignition...:-)
That sounds odd -- I rather doubt that the govt fleet includes a six-year-old car. I may be wrong, but the ministerial cars I have seen around Westminster are all fairly new (I can't recall seeing one more than 3 years old).
|
>>That sounds odd -- I rather doubt that the govt fleet includes a six-year-old car.>>
The story clearly states a top-of-the-range Rover 800 Sterling (I was going on memory when I posted), but the car featured in the photograph in the background appears to be a 75.
That, if you think about it, shows Rover up in an even worse light....:-(
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
|
|
|
A story with a certain convenient ring about it, don't you think.
Any way, must dash - got some flying pigs to feed.
|
|
|
|
|
When I think of the BL group saga I can't help but compare it to the French car makers, especially Renault.
If you can't sell on quality then you have to sell on new design and creating new markets.
|
|
Are you seriously suggesting Renault is free from Government subsidy?! Whether it looks legal under EU law or not, I'd wager all I have on the French Government ensuring that no obstacles get in the way of Renault cars - whether they use subsidies to suppliers or what I don't know, but it ain't a profitable, stand alone company in Anglo-Saxon language.
|
There is a difference between government subsisdy and government part or fully owned, i.e. nationalised. Renault is part owned by the French state, Rover was recently a private company, the EC guidlines prohibit governments from subsidising (proping up) failing private companies.
One option re Rover would be for the British government to nationalise it (rather re-nationalise it) however the tax payer would have taken on all liabilities with little prospect of a pay back from future commercial successes.
|
There is a difference between government subsisdy and government part or fully owned, i.e. nationalised.
In theory, yes.
In practice, probably not.
|
In France, with Renault and PSA the Government is a shareholder, - with majority voting rights.
Funny enough, In France, the banks also have the government as shareholder with majority voting rights.
Somehow the banks seem to lend the car companies all the money they need. No-one is really sure if all this is technically legal under EEC rules or not.
|
|
But luckily Renault posted a ?2.4 billion operating profit last year, so the comparison with Rover is somewhat empty--with that they could have developed two new models for Longbridge.
|
Renaukt turned round Nissan into profit.
So perhaps the French management know something about making cars after all: not just in France.
Sniping at French success after British failure?
madf
|
|
Not me. The French state took the risk; let it reap the benefits.
|
|
But luckily Renault posted a ?2.4 billion operating profit last year, so the comparison with Rover is somewhat empty--with that they could have developed two new models for Longbridge.
Operating profit!
Concorde made an 'Operating profit' but was deemed 'not economical to keep flying'!
Triumph motorcycles - the Meriden Co-op - made an 'Operating profit' but were closed down because the government refused to write-off their debts!
How many millions have the French written-off to be able to call Renault 'Profitable'?
|
|
Millions no doubt, but Renault is still in business because the French take a different view on these matters from the hard-headed Brits. No point complaining about it.
|
Well, the UK could have put in the money, but then it wouldn't have had enough cash to go and atatck Iraq.
Actually, the idea of rescuing MG-(R)over doesn't seem so bad now ...
|
Amid all the general reasons for the failure of MG-Rover, one factor I mentioned here some time ago seems still to ring true.
When the ranges were facelifted about 2 years ago, I thought the MG's makeover was very weak. I've seen remarkably few of the facelifted MGs about - rather more Rovers, which looked OK.
Cheers, Sofa Spud
|
Millions no doubt, but Renault is still in business because the French take a different view on these matters from the hard-headed Brits. No point complaining about it.
You will be saying next that the French subsidised the Airbus project!>>
|
You will be saying next that the French subsidised the Airbus project!
And neither did we . . .
|
|
|
|
>> There is a difference between government subsisdy and government part or >> fully owned, i.e. nationalised. In theory, yes. In practice, probably not.
In EC legislation, almost certainly.
|
In EC legislation, almost certainly.
As I said, in theory .... ;-)
|
Now here's something (if it is true) that would make me very angry if I was one of the newly-redundant workforce:
www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=...8
Final paragraph reads as follows:
In a rather ghoulish bid to publicise itself, Richard Branson's Virgin Cars company today claimed that MG Rover had "pulled out of a deal that would have seen the manufacturer supply 12,000 cars a year to the direct car retailer group and could have helped safeguard the jobs of workers at MG Rover's West Midlands plant." Just weeks ago, MG Rover had pulled out of a 12-month contract to supply £100m-worth of cars. A Virgin Cars spokesman said: "It is our understanding that MG Rover pulled out of the deal because their dealers were unhappy with the level of discounts (up to 35 percent) we were planning to offer. We, on the other hand, had been looking forward to offering great value to our customers whilst providing a sales lift for the last remaining British independent volume car manufacturer." The 12,000 cars would have provided a much-needed revival of MG Rover's sales figures: last year, MG Rover registered a total of under 77,000 vehicles, compared to just under 96,000 in 2003.
--
andymc
Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
|
Just seen an interesting suggestion - turn Longbridge into a prison and retrain some of the original workforce as prison officers!
|
Just seen an interesting suggestion - turn Longbridge into a prison and retrain some of the original workforce as prison officers!
For the worst offenders and least co-operative prisoners, an extra fearsome punishment: release them with their very own City Rover ...
|
The dealerships in Preston and Chorley that were part of the Phoenix Group have gone into administration....
Even more scarey news from the Preston area:
www.prestontoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=7...0
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
Ok so thats 12,000 vehicles lost, would have brought them up to 89,000 compared to 2003's 96,000. So that still falling sales then. And 12000 discounted cars is 12000 not sold at dealers probably.
|
Not too sure that there would have been any profit in that 12,000 car deal for Rover.
HJ
|
news.independent.co.uk/business/news/story.jsp?sto...3
"The fire sale of MG Rover's assets began yesterday as the administrators of the collapsed car maker sent out details of the production facilities at Longbridge to about 40 potential purchasers."
and interestingly, a revival of the MG bid from 2000 ...
www.austin-rover.co.uk/
"Alchemy talking up chances: new MG in three years. Could Alchemy turn MG into Britain's Porsche?"
|
"Alchemy talking up chances: new MG in three years. Could Alchemy turn MG into Britain's Porsche"
Oh Perlease do you know how much that would cost? The best they could hope for is another Morgan or TVR
Whats happened to MG's entry into the DTM (german touring cars) by the way?
|
I find the idea of the government helping Rover employees/suppliers sickening.
I work in telecoms and 3 years ago we had a government induced downturn in telecomms (Gordon charged 40Billion for 3G licences) which caused among other things Marconi's downfall (has hit all our pensions) and my employer to shed 1000 staff (2 out of every 3) not 20 miles from Longbridge.
No help, no assistance, no nothing!
Labour claims to be backing a high tech Britain so why support Rover but not Telecomms?
Perhaps the telecomms employers were not in marginal labour seats!
|
|
SAIC have written to some component manufacturers asking if they are interested in supplying to SAIC who may build the Rover 75 in China. Question: how long will they buy components from the UK?
|
According to Martin Shankilman on Radio 2 this evening, SAIC are probably going to get the intellectual rights to Rover cars for about 100 million. They will be built and sold in China. SAIC are also said to be sounding out BMW about buying the Rover name.
They probably had this sort of deal in mind all along, with no real intention of buying Longbridge and continuing car production in this country.
The unacceptable face of Communism, perhaps?
|
The unacceptable face of Communism, perhaps?
[TIC]
Spelling error? It's Capitalism.....
[/TIC]
ND
|
|
The "unacceptabe face" comment was actually TiC. Got to admire the Chinese if this was what they planned all along, damn good bit of business on their part.
|
|
Dont fancy their chances of exporting any Rovers to the UK
|
In this week's Autocar there's an article about how to save MG for £100k! There would be a lot of hurdles to overcome - basically the idea would be to keep the TF in production while developing a successor plus new variants. Even a suggestion of reviving the Austin-Healey name for a front-engined V8 sports car. Engines for all the new cars would be sourced from outside suppliers
Pie in the sky? Probably. The Austin Healey thing worries me. Symptomatic of the whole problem, harking back to a 'glorous past'. The car in the artist's impression, though nicely painted, is a pastiche, a caricature even, of an A=H 3000.
If the MG name is to live on, I'd think PSA (Peugeot/Citroen) would make a good owner and they make cars in UK. VW has enough brands already!
Cheers, Sofa Spud
|
They probably had this sort of deal in mind all along, with no real intention of buying Longbridge and continuing car production in this country.
Check out the previous volumes of this thread and I think you'll find this was sniffed out a while ago. I know a businessman who trades regularly with China and he had this to say to me: If there is a quick buck to be made in China they will make it far quicker than you.
SAIC has taken the route that most businesses would take if givne the option: get the assets, not the liabilities. And boy, those liabilities...
Incidentally, I don't buy the line that this is another example of the death of manufacturing. The death of metal-bashing, perhaps, but we're still 'manufacturing' the ideas and technologies that lie under the skin. May be we should reconsider what manufacturing really means in the 21st century.
|
According to Martin Shankilman on Radio 2 this evening, SAIC are probably going to get the intellectual rights to Rover cars for about 100 million.
Isn't that what they bought, for considerably less, last year?
|
BBC News:
"It emerged on Friday that two Iranian car companies may be interested in buying the stricken firm.
The Iranian embassy in London has confirmed that talks are under way with the MG Rover administrators.
It said a statement may be made on Saturday. "
My money is on one of them being Iran Khodro, who currently make the Samand: www.ikco.com/products/samand.asp
I think that the Samand is Peugeot (405?) based, as was the prehistoric Paykan that preceeded it (and which had a production run spanning decades!)
|
|
Yes iran Khodro produce various 405 based cars - a few of the pug club i'm in have expressed an interest in the RWD 405 they priduce!
|
"I think that the Samand is Peugeot (405?) based, as was the prehistoric Paykan that preceeded it (and which had a production run spanning decades!)"
I think the Paykan was based on the 1960's Hillman Hunter and only finished production a couple of years ago!
|
Yes, you are correct.
I just checked, and whilst Samand is 405 based, the Paykan was indeed Hunter based. For some reason I had in my head that the Hunter based car was called something else.
|
I think the Paykan was based on the 1960's Hillman Hunter and only finished production a couple of years ago!
In fact it only went out of production this month and appears to be a current model if you go to www.ikco.com/products/paykan.asp .
How anachronistic to see a new Hillman Hunter being advertised on a web site!
More at www.rootes-chrysler.co.uk/index.htm?hunterspreadf....m
|
Seems I was right to guess Iran Khodro.
Just published on BBC News:
According to a semi-official Iranian news agency, ISNA, the two firms in question are Iran Khodro and SAIPA. Iran Khodro is the largest carmaker in the Middle East, while SAIPA is the second-biggest carmaker in Iran.
|
I think the Paykan was based on the 1960's Hillman Hunter and only finished production a couple of years ago!
It was based indeed on a Hillman Hunter and only finally ended production in the last week or two, according to a small item in Autocar.
Cheers, SS
|
If Iran Khodro produce cars based on the Peugeot 405, why would they be interested in Rover designs? Given that the recently dropped Paykan design was nearly 40 years old, the Peugeot 405 design is still a spring chicken!
Cheers, SS
|
|
And a fine platform it was too, probably better than most current rover offerings
|
Latest Autocar has article on the designs of cars that Rover were supposedly working on right up till the end. Apparently they wanted to leapfrog current trends and produce 'challenging' designs. Just as well as the cars wouldn't have become available until 2008.
Looking at most of the drawings, plus photos of concepts, the cars would have bombed in the marketplace. At least there was quite a neat theme for the new corporate Rover front end, but as for the MG version!!! Nissan Primera after a crash test is putting it kindly!
Cheers, SS
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
