Just remember the advice I was given when considering an old BMW 7 series....the purchase price on a car like that is only the down payment. One fault could easily cost more than the car is worth. Ok if it's a £500 banger but not a £5k one.
But good luck if you get one, I'm often tempted by V12 series 3 models, especially the Daimler VdP.
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Unless you know what you are doing avoid the V12s. You can have problems on three or four cylinders, but with so many you never notice until it's too late. A friend had a V12 for a few months and whilst it was fun to drive, single figure mpg wasn't fun to live with!!
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My experience of driving a Mark 3 XJ6 1983 vintage was : great funs, lovely ride.
But pay more than £3k and when the biills starts you will want to get rid quick.
Sub £3k you can sell it for peanuts and not lose too much.
Bit different on a £6k car.. you have to spend that £2k a year to prevent it expiring worthless.
And the fuel consumption around town. Oh dear.
Never again. Fun while it lasted. I did all my own repairs and saved £000s. But even so it was very expensive.
(I towed a caravan to Scotland at a highly legal (! some mistook) speed and averaged 14mpg. The twin fuel tanks are not for show....)
madf
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The N to R reg are known as the X300's and feature the AJ16 engine 6 cylinder engine (R onwards is the X308 with the AJv8 engines), a improvement on the AJ6 used in the old XJ40 and the 6 cylinder XJ-S. Very reliable cars and do a massive mileage if well looked after SO FSH either dealer or specailist is essential. Any car with even a slightly patchy service history i.e. last service done by man down street/kwikfit etc, I would avoid, as even though these may be people of integrity, the Jag needs someone who knows about jags and their problems looking after it.
The 4.0/3.2 are much of a muchness economy wise (22 average) and its really up to you what you want to get. The 4.0 comes with sports switch on the gearbox, which the 3.2 doesn't but aside from that there is not much between them. The transmission difference mentioned by HJ I personally havn't heard of, but as he is in the biz, and i merely like these cars, i cannot say.
Models in very brief summary ( i could give you more detail, but i this is the limit of my sadness for today :-) ):
XJ6 (engines 3.2/4.0 and LWB)- basic but can be specced up. Initally came with cloth classic seats, and wheel trims,r, though you rarely see these around as most owners specified leather and alloys on them.
XJ-Sport- SWB XJ6 with sports seats and sports suspension and damper setup (half cloth for first 2 years of production if i remember).
XJ-executive (produced in 1996-1997 only in 3.2 SWB)- The best compromise in my opinion, an XJ6 with sports seats faced in leather, electric height adjust on drrvers seat, and then could be specced up
XJ-R- 4.0 Supercharged SWB, Sport suspension, sport seats and mightly quick. Supercharger has a tendency to go on these.
XJSovereign 3.2/4.0 SWB LWB. All bells and whistles, including cruise, electic steering column and auto dim rear view mirror. The last two have invariably gone wrong by now, and IMHO, there is too many niggly problems on these for me to want one.
Daimler 6 - LWB and SWB 4.0. A veritable whistle factory. everything imaginable (obviously not Sat nav as this was not around at the time). Leather armchairs, walnut picnic table etc etc. Once again whistles go wrong
NB all models could be made to any spec, so an XJ6 may have more kit than a soverign because of the options ordered
XJ12 and daimler double 6. 6 litre V12 engines, beautiful to drive, BUT V big servicing costs and they do need to be maintained very carefully, so for a useable car i would avoid these too.
On startup rattling timing chains are common, and not the big warning signal that they are on the V8 engines. Transmission grumble is also present, but this isn't terminal since they go on for many thousands of miles like this.
Gear changes should be smooth and acceleration brisk. Handling should be sharp and not wallowy especially on cars with the sport as opposed to confort setup, if they are lower wishbone bushes are in need of replacemet. Head gaskets tend to go at 140'000 miles, especially on the XJ-r Supercharged, on which the supercharger goes as well.
Watch out for rust on the wheel arches and the front windscreen surround, especially on the early cars. All cars with alloy have corroding alloys unless refurbshed, electric ariels can go if not looked after (but there is meant to be an easy fix)
Inside A worn drivers seat is status quo as most of these machines have done well over 80000 miles. All electrics should work well, aside from the electric steering adjustment if present and the autodim mirror if present. The radio lights and the clock bulb also have a tendency to go, but that is an easy fix.
In summary, great cars, look for minimal owners with stacks of service history (dealer/specialist). I would pay about 5-8k for a really nice car (dependant on model).
If there is anything i have missed i am sure someone will inform me. I can't be bothered to keep going, I have been in theatre on my feet far too long today and need a rest.
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Excellent summary, smoke. Very interesting reading!
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I think there was something from HJ in the Telegraph on Saturday, basically saying that transmissions on the 4.2 last longer than others as they didn't have to change gear so much as the 3.2. As regards the V12 - you may not notice the performance difference if one or two are missing, but you will notice the sound, assuming your ears work. I'm averaging 11-12 round town, which is comparable with a petrol 4x4 and not that far off the x type mentioned in my thread a couple of weeks ago.
O
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Jaguar XJS V12 - comes with free personalised oil tanker.
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..or maybe it was in his post above, which I entirely missed. Apologies!
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Jaguar XJS V12 - comes with free personalised oil tanker.
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I am confused, when HJ mentiones the 4.2 does he mean the old series III, since this was the XK engine which dates back to the 1950's and ceased production with the series III/Limo, or the very latest V8s neither of which fall into the age range of the car described and both of which have a totally different transmission to the X300. As i menitoned, on the Jag lovers forum this is a problem that doesn't come up on the X300.
A problem that i did miss is the sticking throttle body, if on the test drive the car feels as though the acclerator is a on off switch, this is usually the problem and involves removal cleaning and replacement of the spring on the trottle body, a DIY job for the compentant.
A amazing resouce for this car (and i don't know if its OK to link to it so mods please delete if required is)
www.jag-lovers.org/modern/x300book/x300index.html
cheers
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Reckon HJ probably meant 4.0 not 4.2,
I saw a nice looking N reg XJ sport the other day, silver I think, looked very classy and contemorary, only the wheels let it down though there was not too much wrong with them. The mettalic turquoise and purple ones look a bit dated, very mid 90's colours (as per my thread regarding motorbikes).
Regards.
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The problem is not the transmission. It's the number of gearchanges required of it. The 3.2 generally requires more than the 4.0.
HJ
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> Orson {P}
> I'm averaging 11-12 round town, which is comparable with a
> petrol 4x4 and not that far off the x type mentioned in my
> thread a couple of weeks ago.
If that's an XJ-S H.E., then you may want to check your distributor centrifugal and vacuum advance systems. Have a look here for an authoritative discussion. www.jagweb.com/aj6eng/vacuum.html
and the surrounding pages. You should get at least into the mid teens in an H.E. If its a pre-H.E. then the distributor equally benefits from a good sort-out, but the end fuel consumption will be higher. The centrifugal advance on ALL XJ V12s is very prone to seizing up. Symptoms are loss of power and poor fuel consumption. The diaphragm in the vacuum system also gets hardened with age and heat, and should probably be replaced every five years or so.
Good on you for keeping an XJ-S on the road. That takes dedication , with UK fuel prices.
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The excellent advice above notwithstanding, join one of the Jaguar clubs:
www.ukmotorsport.com/uk_car_clubs.html#j
and get plenty more advice. I've just acquired a 1991 MB 300 SE and I am so grateful for the ton of information and advice I received from fellow members of the MB club on the forum. It enabled me to know exactly what to look for when viewing and testing the seven cars I eventually inspected, and to budget for fixing the predictable weaknesses and failures.
As ever, the service history is crucial. One of the MBs I looked at only out of curiosity had 370k on the clock. It was as sweet as a nut, with no rebuild of engine or transmission -- it has been serviced at 6000-mile intervals without fail for the whole of its life, which sometimes amounted to eight times a year (and lubricated throughout with Crown Sapphire oil, by the way). And, of course, check the fluids and don't forget the oil filler cap -- they can tell you a lot.
(Footnote: of the seven 300 SEs I saw, the 370k car was one of the youngest but had the most corroded bodywork by far -- it had always been kept in a garage.)
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P. S. Bells & whistles: I am delighted that my MB has no cat, no electrically operated seats and no A/C -- three items that are very expensive indeed when they fail. As I know from my other MB, electric seats without a memory module are a pain, a waste of time in fact. People usually seem to want all the bells & whistles, partly with resale value in mind, but how relevant is that on a car of advanced mileage? If it is eventually bought by someone else, they're quite likely to be an enthusiast on a budget.
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Thanks for that - I'll get them to have a look. Macclesfield is not too far. It's 11-12 from cold on short runs - I get 15 or so on a longer urban drive, and 18-20 depending on speed on a run. This seemed to be about what I was expecting, and what the classic mags suggested. Is the vacuum advance something you'd expect a main dealer service to pick up if you hadn't specifically said there was a problem? It is a 1988 E reg with the HE engine.
O
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Jaguar XJS V12 - comes with free personalised oil tanker.
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Orson:
I'd be surprised if the main dealer service did anything but touch the bare minimum on a service. Most dealers are frightened to death of the V12 and push them back out the door as quickly as they can. The symptoms of bad vacuum advance are not particularly obvious, apart from a poor fuel consumption, as mentioned in the link in my previous message. A good modification is to disconnect the 15 minute timer that disables vacuum advance below a water temperature of 45 degrees C. There seems to be no real reason for this system, and removing it has no effect on the car, apart from improving fuel consumption in the first 15 minutes of driving. The auxiliary air valve does a fine job of regulating the idle to the engine temperature as it is warming up, and the ECU sensors adjust to air and coolant temperature. I suggest you download the free book "Experience in a Book" by Kirby Palm. This is a distillation of several years of information from the Jag-Lovers XJ-S forum and is probably the most useful book on the XJ-S you can get. It's available in PDF and MS Word formats. There is an extensive section on the distributor that should be required reading for all Jaguar V12 owners. It's at: www.jag-lovers.org/xj-s/book/
Happy reading!
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