Rover 75 Estate

Honest John Back Room » Motoring discussion
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Sun 15 May 2005 15:05
Rover 75 Estate - ChrisP
I would welcome any words of wisdom...my father-in-law is thinking about buying a nearly-new Rover 75 Estate, probably a petrol engined one. Honest John has a mixed review in the car-by-car breakdown section - has anyone got any experience or advice?
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Sun 15 May 2005 16:43
Rover 75 Estate - Honestjohn
Who makes the spare parts he may need in years to come?

HJ
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Sun 15 May 2005 18:47
Rover 75 Estate - mfarrow
Who makes the spare parts he may need in years to
come?


If there's demand for it, somebody will make it.

--------------
Mike Farrow
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Mon 16 May 2005 01:04
Rover 75 Estate - AnyColourYouLike
"Who makes the spare parts he may need in years to come?"

In a worse case scenario, the Chinese, since they keep on talking total nonsense about building the 75, anyway if he buys a diesel, BMW will be able to supply parts for the engine and other shared parts, hi-fi head units etc (indeed, I know of people who are now having their 75 CDTis' serviced at BMW dealers).

Caterpillar are a massive manufacturing outfit, they make huge numbers of diesel engines, so getting one of their suppliers to make parts for the millions of K-Series engines out there isn't going to be difficult, is it ?

On a more positive note, there's a chance that manufacturing of some models will resume, so getting genuine factory parts should hopefully resume shortly.

Now, HJ, getting back to your original point, why exactly are you trying to put someone off buying a truely excellent British car, one with outstanding levels of reliability as witnessed in ANY car magazine survey ?

Chances are if the guy keeps his car for 3 or 4 years, it'll need just very basic consumables, brakes, tyres, belts, filters etc anyway, all of which are widely available.

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Mon 16 May 2005 09:19
Rover 75 Estate - Mudguts
Chances are if the guy keeps his car for 3 or
4 years, it'll need just very basic consumables, brakes, tyres, belts,
filters etc anyway, all of which are widely available.


It's exactly that: a CHANCE, not a CERTAINTY, that the right parts will be readily available. Maybe if you are running a Bentley or Masarati you could put up with searching for parts but not anyone running a car like a Rover, that they may well need every day and didn't buy as a "labour of love" or weekend car. It would have been bought as a tool for everyday use in most cases.
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Sun 15 May 2005 17:03
Rover 75 Estate - ChrisP
Maybe he should buy two and moth-ball one...?
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Sun 15 May 2005 21:43
Rover 75 Estate - Honestjohn
Small problem with mfarrow's response. There are several thousand parts in a Rover 75 requiring many different manufacturing processes. And if you were a bank, would you lend money to a company whose business plan was to manufacture parts for a diminishing market? Sure some parts will be made. But no one can yet be confident that all of them will be.

HJ

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Sun 15 May 2005 23:29
Rover 75 Estate - Badger
Didn't Caterpillar buy up the spares business and enormous quantities of spares?
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Sun 15 May 2005 23:45
Rover 75 Estate - Avant
Yes, but you know what caterpillars turn into.....
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Mon 16 May 2005 00:01
Rover 75 Estate - Mapmaker
...chrysalides. Yes, I do, but I fail to see the connection?
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Mon 16 May 2005 00:02
Rover 75 Estate - blue_haddock
***Pedant mode ON***

Oh and it's not an estate it's a tourer!

***Pedant mode OFF***
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Mon 16 May 2005 00:06
Rover 75 Estate - Avant
Then butterflies - and you know how long they live.

Seriously, though, I've no reason to believe that Caterpillar isn't viable - but assuming they replenish stocks thy will only do so if they can make money. I can visualise some parts unique to a 75 being hard to get, or having to be manufactured to order, and at a price.
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Mon 16 May 2005 00:02
Rover 75 Estate - Imagos
The parts point is really a old chesnut. i don't agree with HJ on this.

You could argue that any car that is out of production the spares are hard to find.

But what spares will you need?

Ok, bodywork? Have an accident and any bodyshop can repair your car albeit with pattern parts.

Engine parts? With the K series engine and indeed any Rover engine i suspect that spark plugs, air filters, oil filters, water pumps, clutches etc will be no more difficult to find than anything other car, the same applies to exhausts, bulbs, tyres, all widely available fro your local fast fitter.

Interior trim? always difficult to find for any car let alone Rover and how often do you need a new seat?

HJ, what spares are you referring to?
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Mon 16 May 2005 11:18
Rover 75 Estate - Ex-Moderator
>>would you lend money to a company whose business plan was to manufacture parts for a diminishing market?

Damn right - if I was sure that they could/would repay the loan. They could be making plastic fireguards for all I cared, provided that I believed I would a) get my money back and b) a reaosnable return.

What does the bank care ?

And given that I can buy spares for an MG from 35 years ago, I wouldn't be worrying that much. And look at the prices of the things - its almost worthwhile buying two of the things so that you have your own parts supply.


M.
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Mon 16 May 2005 20:47
Rover 75 Estate - mfarrow
People don't just have to rely on the main dealer to supply parts, there are surely pattern parts out there and parts from scrap yards and dismantlers that will serve the same purpose. Many electrical components such as throttle bodies and ECUs can be remanufactured, and the K-series engine is so old that it's highly likely somebody's making pattern parts for the internals already. As for structural parts: well, that might be an issue, but will the value of Rover cars so low anyway an impact that will result in substantial structural damage is likely to write the car off anyway.

Quick Q, what's the unique point with Caterpilla taking over supply of spare parts? Surely this was always done before by Unipart anyway, not a Rover MG company?

--------------
Mike Farrow
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Mon 16 May 2005 01:15
Rover 75 Estate - WhiteTruckMan
Perhaps someone could explain the difference to me between a 75 and any other car that has simply ceased production?

WTM
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Mon 16 May 2005 01:56
Rover 75 Estate - Aprilia
Perhaps someone could explain the difference to me between a 75
and any other car that has simply ceased production?
WTM


The manufacturer has gone out of business and several parts suppliers are also in trouble.

There is no doubt that there will be parts supply problems on the 75. There are a heck of a lot of parts in a car and it will be the relatively slow moving, low value but critical parts that become hard to find.

Two weeks ago I had to make up a gearbox shift-rod bush for a relatively popular car of 1995 vintage - the bush was no longer available from the supplier. Fortunately I was able to machine something up using a standard sized polyurethane bush and a phospor bronze insert. Its things like this that cause the hassle and keep cars off the road. Getting secondhand bits from breakers is not always viable - I managed to locate a secondhand gear linkage, but the bush in that was shot too.
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Mon 16 May 2005 09:53
Rover 75 Estate - Honestjohn
Many thanks, Aprilia. If they don't believe me they ought to believe you. I had one reader had to wait 9 months for a structiral body part for a Rover 75, and that was a year ago. It could not be driven without the part. Car remained off the road for 9 months. Since specific parts for any car no longer in production are made up in batches and since manufacturers don't like to finance large stocks of such parts there can be long waits for any parts. But with Rover there remain an uncertainly as to who will actually manufacture many of the essential parts. Not all parts, of course. But if your car is off the road for need of one specific part it's no use to anyone, is it?

HJ
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Mon 16 May 2005 11:55
Rover 75 Estate - Mapmaker
And of course the parts availability is factored into the price.

The CHANCES are that you will not end up needing an obscure part - they're obscure for a reason! If every Rover 75 needed HJ's 'structiral' part, then no doubt there would be a ready supply.

You might be unlucky, but for the price they are it's worth that chance. Given the sheer style that the 75 tourer oozes, I'd be having one - if I didn't have a new Scorpio to play with.

I really think that the 75 is the most stylish car on the road today.
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Mon 16 May 2005 12:38
Rover 75 Estate - tonyl
Based on the experience my wife has with her 2000 reg Rover 75 and an 04 reg MG ZT I have to say HJ is spot on. Lack of parts supply caused both these cars to be off the road for literally weeks at a time. I think we put more miles on her hire car than the ZT in the 6 months we had it as it was off the road awaiting parts so often.

So if it was bad before MGR's demise what is the future going to be like! It is a real shame, as the 75 estate is IMHO a very attractive car for not much money. Guess it depends how much risk you like in your life!
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Mon 16 May 2005 14:00
Rover 75 Estate - Puppetland
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Mon 16 May 2005 14:04
Rover 75 Estate - blue_haddock
Even now some garages are refusing to accept
MGR products in part exchange.


We will take in Rovers still but the price will be very low.
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Mon 16 May 2005 14:23
Rover 75 Estate - BB
I have worked in the automotive industry for many years now with seat/interior manufacturers / Caterpillar and now Jaguar.

All the tooling that we used to manufacture the components have to be kept for 10 years (legal requirement) after the cars cycle has ceased. Now this usually doesn't cause any problems, but with MG Rover and most of it's suppliers going bust, who is going to bother finding where all this tooling is kept and ensuring that the consumer gets his spare part? No-one.

I am not saying that all parts will be hard to find and yes, some companies will find a way of making a bit of cash out of pattern parts for MG Rover cars. But there will be a lot less spares around for MG Rover in the future and there are some cases where a pattern part just is not good enough.
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Mon 16 May 2005 18:47
Rover 75 Estate - smeg
I wouldn't worry about spares parts. It's the same for all modern cars once they go out of production, or even when they change the spec. I have a Golf VR6 Mk 3 and many of the parts now are special order from Germany with a wait. Its an early car and the dizzy was only fitted for the first two years, so some ignition parts are now hard to get.
Things like filters, plugs, rolling bearings etc. are normally fitted to several other makes so you can always source them somewhere.
If you really need that obscure body part buried deep in the shell, due to accident damage, chances are the car isn't worth repairng anyway.
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Mon 16 May 2005 20:05
Rover 75 Estate - R40
Supply of parts for the 75 are an understandable concern for owners given the lack of available information at this time but the reality is, for the 75 owner, fortunately positive.

A number of large suppliers (as well as mgr linked companies such as x part) have over the past twelve months acquired significant stocks (£ many millions) of 75 parts, including service items, panels, trim and even up to full engines etc. etc.

Plus a number of major 75 items (gearboxes for one) are used by manufacturers of other cars.

As a 75 owner I am confident about parts supply in the future (though I recognise that saying so now almost guarantees me an early problem with something very obscure and small lol )

Regards

R40
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Mon 16 May 2005 20:41
Rover 75 Estate - Vansboy
Astra, you don't say where you're thinking of buying from, or what sort of deal you can get.

As the airfields of pre & unregisterd stock, is now starting to show up in auction (Registered Account Holders Only Sales) you'd be well advised to make friends with an independent dealer, that could buy on your behalf.

05 Connissour(spelling) for around £10k seems good value, if they come for that money!!

VB
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Mon 16 May 2005 21:09
Rover 75 Estate - midlifecrisis
The West Midlands is currently experiencing a spate of TF and ZT thefts. Cars are subsequently recovered completely stripped. Could be a coincidence, or a dodgy dealer stocking up!!
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Wed 18 May 2005 19:44
Rover 75 Estate - local yokel
From HJ's auction report today 18 May:

"MG/Rovers are now on the floor. A 32k mile 03 reg MG ZT 190+ Tourer sold for £7,100. A 53k mile 2000X Rover 75 1.8 Club SE sold for £3,100. And a 34k mile Y reg Nightfire red Rover 45 1.8 Club with a/c, alloys and sunroof sold for just £2,700."
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Wed 18 May 2005 23:15
Rover 75 Estate - Hugo {P}
Generally speaking, if there are ane enough of them out there - yes someone will stock parts for them.

The problem is that the market is still reeling from the collapse of the company, so good long term dependability for perts may not appear yet.

It will take a little longer for the independent parts networks to settle and ensure a supply of parts to customers I feel.

H
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Wed 18 May 2005 23:30
Rover 75 Estate - WhiteTruckMan
I'm still not convinced that just because rover (and probably soon to follow some suppliers) went bump is enough reason to avoid the car. take a look at this

www.ureader.co.uk/message/741919.aspx

as a cry for help, the type of which is the scenario that some would have you believe is going to apply to rovers in the not too distant future. It may well be, but its a risk that you take when you buy ANY car.

WTM
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Thu 19 May 2005 00:15
Rover 75 Estate - Aprilia
as a cry for help, the type of which is the
scenario that some would have you believe is going to apply
to rovers in the not too distant future. It may well
be, but its a risk that you take when you buy
ANY car.
WTM


Yes, but the risk varies from one brand to another. Suprisingly enough I have found the Japanese brands to be pretty good at long-term parts availability. For an older Jap car the part may not be in stock in the UK, but they will get if for you from Japan (you may have to wait 8 weeks).

Some other brands can be far less accommodating. BMW, for example, are poor at parts availability for older cars, whereas Mercedes Benz are absolutely brilliant.

Ford can be poor - you wouldn't expect it, but some parts for the Probe are no longer available and some Explorer parts are difficult to obtain.
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