If I tried using the handbrake in a Merc I think it would be called 'TWOCing'. I drive an old Peugeot! Still since sorting out the back brakes I use the handbrake much more, it just takes less effort now.
Steve.
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Sorry to spoil the debate but I'm seriously considering an auto next time, must be diesel turbo though. I'm sick of all the clutch work that goes with the congestion.
Steve.
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>>I can't left foot brake naturally
Oh lordy lordy. Did you drive naturally? Did you not have any lessons? Did you never stall the car when lifting the clutch? never clip the kerb? etc. etc.
Do you mean that you have never tried LFB sufficiently to get the hang of it?
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Steady Mapmaker, there is only room on this soapbox for one of us !
For me the irritation is not so much whether or not you left foot brake or right foot brake. The point about doing what is comfortable and safe for you, and avoiding unneccessary changes is a good one.
What winds me up is first the "saving time moving your foot" syndrome and the "autos *might* surge and you will be better able to stop that if you're left foot braking" effect. Both of which are ridiculous in the real world.
I also object to the idea that those who LFB are somehow superior and better, safer drivers. Not that I am implying that everybody feels or says that, but it does sometimes come across.
>Do you mean that you have never tried LFB sufficiently to get the hang of it?
No, I never have.
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Fascinating subject for someone new to autos ;-)
Can those who have mastered this two-footed approach and say it is safer because it saves valuable time by using the left rather than right foot, say where they place their left foot when driving along???
I can *almost* understand the manouvering argument, but in my limited experience of autos, I find my right foot rarely leaves the brake when manouvering, as it is controlling my momentum against the drive, never mind applying throttle as well.
When I did give the 2-footed approach a very short trial, I found it decidely uncomfortable/unnatural (as one would expect)....and people used to moan about offset pedal positions on the manual 3 series !!! Myself included :-)
Regards.
Graham.
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This thread is one in which I can no longer bite my tongue. By heck there are some pedantic people about. I have driven auto cars since 1973 as well as manuals. None of the autos has EVER surged, lunged or leapt whilst the accelerator pedal has been relaxed, that idea is simply an excuse by the incompetent to blame the mechanical bits for their lack of feel. I spent most of 1977 perfecting LFB with my XJ12 in a vain attempt to reduce the awful fuel consumption (9MPG). I got quite good at it and used it occasionally later but I feel more comfortable with RFB and generally stick with that now. Some like one system some another, neither is right or wrong. Those of you hung up on one rule fits all should relax.
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Oh go on Mark, there's room for 2. Please!
I don't believe in the saving time moving your foot either (my right foot is generally closer than the left), except when I'm approaching a hazard but daren't slow down (London syndrome) and I think it has the potential to be particularly troublesome so have left foot waiting. Once a month? Less? That probably would save me 5 feet of stopping distance.
I'm not sure about surging autos. I do know that I never feel quite comfortable that I know what an auto is going to do. There's a real delay in response between putting your foot down & something happening - not like a manual which is much more controlled. I don't believe they surge (that is mostly put down to idiots hitting the accelerator, rather than the brake, isn't it?) Having my left foot in place on the brake gives *me and quite a lot of others* a lot more security. Particularly when manoeuvering, when I wouldn't be without it.
*If* an auto *were* to surge then LFB *would* save you. But then, *provided* God exists, going to church would save you. It's a matter of faith in something that is unproved.
*I* am definitely a safer, better and superior driver through LFB. I don't know whether it would do it for you.
Give it a go. It's less putting the left foot on the brake, than releasing the brake with the left foot.
I'd been driving my first auto for about 2 months before I'd heard of LFB (on here). I wasn't sure that I liked an auto that much, owing to the difficulties I found in parking accurately and confidently. Now I am an auto convert, largely through LFB. Maybe it makes a difference that I heard about it soon after my first experience with an auto and that it solved a problem that I had identified following my conversion from a manual.
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I haven't driven an automatic for years, but having read most of the messages, I would say that it's got a lot more to do with whether you are right of left footed than anything else. We are presumibly talking here about the quickest way of getting your foot on the brake, so like any skill you'll do it faster and with more control if you use your "strongest" foot.
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Do you mean that you have never tried LFB sufficiently to get the hang of it?
We normally have a mix of autos and manuals in the household and though I have tried LFB albeit briefly, those few times have put me off trying again; I either end up almost rear ending the guy in front or the guy behind almost rear ends me!
I'm sure with enough practice I'll get the hang of LFB but as I feel quite safe, secure and comfortable with normal RFB, I don't feel it's worth the effort.
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One thing I've never understood is why the brake pedal on an auto is wider than on a manual car.
Anyone know why?
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So its easier to get to with the left foot?
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One thing I've never understood is why the brake pedal on an auto is wider than on a manual car. Anyone know why?
To stop your left foot from leaving the floor
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I've been away. Not looked at The Backroom for a week. But this is the reply I've been sendingRelegraph readers:-
Please see FAQ answer at www.honestjohn.co.uk List of
accidents caused by elderly right foot only drivers of automatics
coming up in the column. If your left foot is always over the brake
you can always stop very quickly. If you use your right foot you
have to lift it, twist it left and push down again. In that fraction
of a second the car remains under power and can move a considerable
distance. If you miss the brake pedal as often happens then disaster
easily occurs. Every successful race and rally driver left foot
brakes. You cannot drive an FI car unless you left foot brake. You
can't even drive a go-kart unless you left foot brake.
HJ
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Not a good idea to compare road car auto boxes with racing cars sequential shifters + launch control let alone "elderly right foot driver" with racing drivers.
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But I don't drive an F1 car. I am not a successful race and/or rally driver. I don't even drive a go-kart. I do drive a Galaxy and a Landcruiser. And I don't drive them on a race track or a rally stage, I drive them on the road.
I have never missed the brake pedal even if it "often happens".
I have driven a single seat race car, but my left heel was resting on the ground and my leg was straight so the muscles didn't ache from hovering my foot in the air and the steering column didn't impede my knee. Ditto in a go-kart.
>>In that fraction of a second the car remains under power
The car remains under power depending on my right foot, not my left. The moment I lift my RIGHT foot the car is no longer under power.
"If your left foot is always over the brake you can always stop very quickly"
So which do you do ? Hover your foot in the air and ignore the aching muscles or rest it on the pedal and let the brakes bind ?
Or given that the brake pedal is in the middle, not to one side like the throttle or like the clutch in a manual, do you somehow lift the steering column out of the way so that you are able to rest your foot on the floor but not put any pressure on the brake pedal ?
Are you seriously saying that the whole time you are in an automatic car your left foot is hovering over the brake ?
LFB may or may not be a good idea. But pretending that you hover your foot above the brake pedal the whole time that you are driving so that you can save yourself from fatal accidents is a nonsense.
To even get close to the idea that "elderly right foot only drivers of automatics" wouldn't have accidents if they practiced LFB is... well I'm not even sure I know the word - but its certainly silly.
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Mark wrote: but I don't... & I don't... & I don't...
But he didn't write 'I am not elderly.' Sooooo.....
Joking apart, I'll changed horses for a moment as what HJ wrote is to my mind very silly indeed.
Are you seriously saying that the whole time you are in an automatic car your left foot is hovering over the brake? (copyright Mark)
Are you seriously saying that people regularly manage to miss the brake pedal with their right foot? When the brake pedal is (as DD pointed out) 2-3 times the normal size? and that they don't have this problem in a normal car?
LFB has a lot to recommend it. But none of the above!
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Manual cars have a go pedal and a stop pedal, operated with the right foot, and a pedal to interrupt the drive chain operated with the left foot. Auto boxes eliminate the third pedal. Why does that (hill starts and recalcitrant idlers ommitted) affect the way you use the other two pedals?
If enthusiastic drivers develop a technique using the left foot then bully for them. I'm a bit more concerned that snake oil of this sort is (with all respect to our host) sold to drivers whose physical infirmities force them to autos as an "improvement" on the single foot technique taught to those who learn on autos.
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If your left foot is always over the brake you can always stop very quickly. If you use your right foot you have to lift it, twist it left and push down again. In that fraction of a second the car remains under power and can move a considerable distance.
So basically you're saying that people who drive manual cars are slower at braking than auto drivers who left foot brake because their left foot is busy with the clutch.
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In fairness to hj, his examples relate to manouvering related incidents. In those circumstances the proximity of the vehicle to hazards (car park examples are given) is such that a sudden unintended acceleration would give you very little time to react before colliding with something and having a left foot covering the foot brake may make the difference between perhaps, a minor or not-so-minor accident?
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Owned many auto's over the years and even in a parking situation all you need is the smallest of dabs on the throttle to give the car enough momentum to move and then your right foot is always safeley covering the brake. In fact, most of the time I find the auto "creep" is quite sufficient to park meaning the right foot is covering the brake the whole time. Safer than a manual sureley? The only time I can see an exception to this is when parking on a very steep hill in which case I might use the handbrake to assist.
I can't see why it would ever need to be any more complicated than that!
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Oh for gods sake you lot!!
Does it matter!!!!
I drive autos every day. Mostly I RFB, but when manouevering or pressing on I LFB as I feel more control in those situations, but I am concentrating harder to do it.
CAn't we agree to disagree and talk about something else like, how to how oftnr to change the oil in a computer generated service internal Merc?
--
Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Espada - I tried saying that halfway down the thread - truth is that they like an argument.
They'd argue about the oil change on the German taxi too!
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>>Does it matter!!!!
I think so, yes.
When advice is given that I believe is wrong, I think it matters a lot. Especially when that advice is perceived as making life safer, when it could do quite the opposite.
I am more than willing to adopt your subject, but somebody is going to have to translate "how to how oftnr to change.." before I can add much to it.
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but somebody is going to have to translate "how to how oftnr to change.." before I can add much to it.
It's called servicing, Mark. It involves taking old, treacle-like oil out of the sump and replacing it with new, thinner, golden-syrup-like oil. ;)
Anyway, this is what converted me to LFB. And to using the stick on an autobox.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=23367&...f
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Thanks Mapmaker - Paul Ripley on LFB -
"The main problem is with those who usually use the right foot, and then try to use their left; they lack the necessary sensitivity and therefore have severe difficulty in applying the right degree of pedal pressure.
I have no issue with a driver using his left foot to brake when driving an automatic. Provided it is safe and smooth, continue using it, although I doubt if a DETR driving examiner taking a learner driver on test would approve of this technique."
Hardly a ringing endorsement and certainly not anti-RFB!
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However, the best bit which was not quoted my Manatee is.....
"I never get involved in arguments when driving is the topic, because this is the only subject in the world where everyone is an expert."
Says it all really.
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>>It's called servicing
I know what its called, I'm just not sure what its for.
I mean, the Landcruiser has now done 70,000 miles and it hasn't used all of the first lot of oil yet.
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>70,000 hasn't used first lot of oil yet.
When the low oil light starts flashing - take out the bulb.
Happy Motoring Phil I
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Hi all. Back again.
Ok, I drive an auto.
I've had it surge ONCE on me. Scared the trousers of me, it did!
(Probably due to nice weather here - that auto choke rarely kicks in... when it does, you know about it!)
However, one thing I HATE is the muppets who left foot brake and sit with their left foot used to 'riding the clutch' (ie brake pedal.)
BIG problem driving behind them...
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