There was an article in the Telegraph today about this (accompanied by a photo of Swiss Toni).
All good points, but I rather felt that the lady writing the piece about her buying experience rather shot herself in the foot by giving the impression that she knew next to nothing about cars.
In the same breath, she castigated the (male) salesperson for suggesting that most women bring a man with them when they are buying a car.
Now, I reckon that it is a fair generalisation to say that on the whole men are more interested in cars than women.
That is a generalisation of course, some men have never opened a bonnet in their lives (though how they can then call themselves "men" I don't know...) and some women are brilliant drivers/mechanics etc. However, i am sure that my generalisation is right.
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I've always wondered about mystery shoppers in car dealerships - you've confirmed that they are done (as I imagined) but then why are car salespeople so (sweeping generalisation follows) utterly useless? Doesn't anything ever get done about your feedback?
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The typical car salesman is uneducated, semi-literate, poorly trained, ill informed, disorganised, sexist, unprofessional, dishonest, pushy and, frankly, not very bright.
Uneducated - out of the 6 salesmen we have half have degrees and the other half don't, incidently the 3 non degree holders are the eldest members of staff
Semi-literate - i may not have the neatest handwriting in the world but i am full literate as are my colleagues
Poorly Trained - trained on what? we all have regular sales training and are pretty clued up on the products.
Ill informed - is this not possibly a management issue?
Disorganised - my desk may not be the neatest in the world but i know where everything is and can explain my filing sytem.
Sexist - this is mainly the older members of the profession who often see females as an easy target. Also a lot of sales training targets the female in a couple as she usually has the final say.
Unprofessional - yes we occasionally don't return phone calls but we are often busy too just like people with normal jobs but a customer in the showroom is more pressing (and possibly more profitable) than one on the end of a phone.
Dishonest - Yes there are some dishonest people in the trade but you get that in pretty much any part of life. The salesman may be a bit elusive with actual facts but very few would resort to a downright lie.
Pushy - well he is a salesman who has a crust to earn.
Not very bright - now this is bordering on offensive and i would love to know on what basis you have formed this opinion.
I would like to add that most of the mystery shoppers that visit our delearship can be spotted a mile away and they may as well have a big neon sign above their head - the vast majority act in a totally different way to the way an genuine customer acts.
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Went to Nissan to buy a X-Trail. We were looking for the base model which we were assured by the female sale person was 4WD. It was not!
Ended up with a Touran instead.
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Either sex could have been similarly ill informed if;
He/she was new in the job
He/she isn't interested in the job
He/she had been assured but his/her sales manager that it was 4 wheel drive.
I see no conclusive evidence that the sex of the sales person had anything to do with the misinformation you recieved.
H
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Semi-literate - i may not have the neatest handwriting in the world but i am full literate as are my colleagues
Or do you mean "I am fully literat" or was it meant to be a joke?
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Mrs V always surprised our customers, at how good her knoledge was, of the vans we sold.
& local Alfa dealer in Hitchin, has a first class lady on their team. Product awareness, customer handling & showroom manner makes plenty of guys look like trainees!
VB
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>Or do you mean "I am fully literat" or was it meant to be a joke?>
Pedant mode on:
I doubt if many people or indeed if anyone could be classed as "fully literate". Perhaps it would be more appropriate to say that one has a high level of literacy
Pedant mode off!
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Uneducated - out of the 6 salesmen we have half havedegrees and the other half don't
I have often wondered what happened to the 3 Degrees after their singing career ended. Some end up in panto....but others in car sales eh?
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...anyone else want to pick apart BH's post:)
Go on, you lot know a good bandwagon when you see one!
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In Thailand there are no men in the showroom. Just well-dressed, good looking women who make up for gaps in each others knowledge by supporting each other. But more than that they embrace the concept of lifetime service. Anything you need for your car, anything goes wrong with it, you have a crash, or you simply want to book it in for a service, you phone the woman who sold it to you, and sold you your insurance. So a bond is formed. And next time you want a new car you feel obliged to go back to her. A female neighbour of mine once got a job in a BMW showroom and got ganged up on by the salesmen and fired. An ex-sales manager I know wanted to promote his most successful salesperson which happened to be a girl, and the salesman ganged up on him to get him fired. Okay, the last two could have been lying. But who would you rather be sold to by: a good looking woman who is there for you throughout the life of your car, or a here today, gone tomorrow commission-based salesman applying the latest American closure techniques on you? (No offence to Blue Haddock here. It's obvious from his postings he is the right sort of salesperson.)
HJ
HJ
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Wonder if there are any car dealers out there who have tried the "one contact for all" approach. I think it would be a winner and as HJ says, would promote brand loyalty. Not sure how the person's pay would be structured though!
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Yes
Small independents do it all the time. The local garage owner sells you the vehicle, services it, takes it as trade in for another. Works well with local customers.......
Bobby, you may have just hit upon a corking Marketing idea!
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& do you remember, 15 or so years back the high profile Northern dealer group Swithens (or similar), the boss ONLY had female sales people.
Very big on Fiat IIRC.
But went down in a cloud of disgrace, regarding some sort of financial misunderstandings.
VB
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& do you remember, 15 or so years back the high profile Northern dealer group Swithens (or similar)....
Yes, they were actually called Swithlands IIRC. They had a number of outlets in Leicestershire. I knew them well.
You're right, they actually went bust, reportedly owing their employees money, according to Central News.
H
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Yes Small independents do it all the time. The local garage owner sells you the vehicle, services it, takes it as trade in for another. Works well with local customers.......
Trouble is that most of them (the franchised ones, selling new cars) have been squeezed out by the big chains - who are themselves being squeezed out by manufacturers.
Exactly the same has happened in my industry - I started in a company of 20 people and we're now part of a huge corporation that employs 10,000+. Guess what - looking after customers is way down the list of things to do. But you better get those forms filled in on time!
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HJ,
Very good points you make. I totally agree with the concept of long-term customer/supplier relationship with salesmen and am disappointed that it doesn't happen.
In my case with a Beemer franchise and buying from new. The minute they've done the deal and they've done the nice hand-over, that's it....over to customer service reception you go. Not condusive to repeat business. They presumably must rely on you wanting more of the product than their service. My other experience is with Skoda - very nice salesmen, lots of promises of test-drives,keeping in touch etc etc (New Octavia) - never happened - guess what, back to Beemer :(
And as for Skoda after-sales at the dealership, the guy who heads that up should be shot, as he is as dis-interested in the customer as anyone could ever be - not something I could say about the BM customer service guys and gals.
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The salesperson we purchased our new 98 Scenic from was female. Can't say I thought it very significant at the time, it was the car we wanted and she eventually came up with the deal we wanted.
She moved on to a Fiat dealership and when I last saw her she was working for a high street bank. Proves that selling cars is little different from selling financial products.
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When my parents were looking for a new car for my mum 5 years ago, they first went to a Pug showroom for a 206. The salesman couldn't really be bothered, he was more interseted in his lunch than a sale. When asked for a test drive he gave some keys to us and pointed to a grubby 206 outside and said 'there it is'.
We then went down the road to the local Toyota dealer to see the Yaris where we were met at the door by a very friendly saleswoman, sat down, offered drinks, and talked through the Yaris by a lady who knew her onions- she knew that car inside out.
(Unfortunately, women being as they are my mum preferred the 206 and that was what we went back and bought. But if it was upto me we would have had the Yaris).
That evening we had a phone call from the Toyota lady to see if we'd made a decision. My dad felt quite sorry for her when he said we'd bought a 206, as she'd put the effort in whereas Pug dealer had put in none.
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But she did her job because both your dad and you remember, and if she stays at the Toyota dealer maybe one day you'll be back.
HJ
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>>The typical car salesman is uneducated, semi-literate, poorly trained, ill informed, disorganised, sexist, unprofessional, dishonest, pushy and, frankly, not very bright.>>
I know quite a number of car salespeople, most of them franchised dealership employed and one who has always run his own very successful business.
To say I disagree with the quoted statement strongly is putting it mildly, at least in the case of those known personally.
Of course there are some slap happy, disinterested or unhelpful sales staff; you quickly cotton on, make your excuses and go elsewhere.
Hopefully their employers also realise such staff members' limitations and ensure a rapid parting of the ways.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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I wish someone would describe what a mystery shopper looks like as I am pretty sure I fit the description, much to my dismay. Either that or I fit the "time waster" description as whenever I get near a car dealership I seem to be roundly ignored.
I won't go so far as to call the many salesmen I encountered, ignorant or illiterate, but a vast majority of them either don't know alot about the product they are selling or can't be bothered telling me about it...that is when I can corner one and force them to talk to me. Who was it that said that a customer in the showroom is more valuable than one on the phone?.
On the plus side if I ever need a bit of quiet time alone, I can always head for my local BMW or VW showroom. 8-)
I think it might be a UK thing though. Last year my cousin was all excited about the BMW 1 series coming to the USA and when he was over for a visit I suggested that we go to the dealer so he could get a preview. He was hesitant saying that he didn't want to be hassled by pushy salesmen especially as he had no intention of buying one in the UK. I just laughed and said, don't worry about that. Later that day we spent a good 30 mins wandering about the showroom fiddling with the cars, leafing through brochures and playing with the BMW Options computer they had set up, and never a word from anyone working there.
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Blue H,
You are obviously a professional and post much good stuff here. If my comments offended, I'm sorry. I concede that 'not very bright' was inappropriate.
My posting was an honest, if deliberately provocatively phrased, view based on several years mystery shopping experience.
Mostly, I assess branches of the national dealership chains, (eg Vardy, Pendragon etc) rather than independents. Some are excellent; they know their stuff, are honest, helpful and - most importantly not pushy.
Considering the value of the products being sold, however, the standard is often shockingly poor. Lack of product knowledge is endemic. My favourite question at VAG dealerships is 'What does PD mean?' Fewer than 20% of sales staff can explain Pumpe-Duse unit injectors adequately. These Muppets are selling £25k Audis!
Another favourite is 'Can the (CRV/Rav4/any soft-roader) safely tow a two-horse box?'. You would not believe how many salesmen will choose to blatantly lie rather than admit the car isn't suitable.
Sometimes I ask about forthcoming models. Again many salesmen will simply lie rather than tell me that the car in his showroom will soon be replaced. In the last month a MINI salesman has told me with a straight face that there are 'no plans for a new model'. I think it's the fact that the assume i am stupid that annoys me most.
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To further defend B.H. I posted a question last month about my brothers Sat Nav on his Toyota and B.H. provided spot on info about my question with a bit of extra information thrown in, free.
So there.
Reggie
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B.H. I believe works at a Toyota dealership, I believe.
Reggie
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There was no deliberate attack on BH. Some views were expressed on the calibre of some sales staff working in dealerships which in hindsight went off topic a bit. I was watching this thread closely so I was glad when Bradgate posted as he did.
Bradgate's post was a well timed acknowledgement that, as in any business, there are both good and bad.
Hugo - BR Moderator
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Widening the 'talent pool' from which car salespeople are recruited to include many more women can only benefit both the motor industry and the customer. In addition to my day job I work as a 'Mystery Shopper' for various market research agencies. Much of the work involves assessing car dealerships in all market sectors. The typical car salesman is uneducated, semi-literate, poorly trained, ill informed, disorganised, sexist, unprofessional, dishonest, pushy and, frankly, not very bright. Typically, I know far more than a salesman about the product he is being paid to sell. When asked detailed product knowledge questions, most salesmen will bluff or lie rather than admit they don't know the answer. Most salesmen don't return my calls, don't send me the literature or finance proposals I ask for and don't seem interested in selling me a car. Apologies if this posting annoys any backroomers who sell cars for a living. I'm sure none of the above applies to you.
Whilst I agree with your general sentiments, I do think you can be over generalising a tad here.
I am in sales in the technology industry, and observe many different types of sales people ranginf from ones you describe above, to genuine, hardworking and in some cases very well qualified sorts. The fact is, that only the decent, intelligent and very hardworking sales people stand the true test of time.
The thicko, ignoramus sexist louts end up back in the gutter !
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I think (and this is just my opinion) that the fundamental problem is boredom. If a salesperson sits around all day in an empty showroom they will be in no state to react the right way when a potential customer walks in. The way to remedy this is to give them plenty to do, so taking calls from existing customers wanting a service, accident damage repaired, a shoulder to cry on all helps. As does being proactive rather than passive, and a lot of other things Blue Haddock could tell us about if he wanted to reveal the secrets of running a car sales operation as successfully as he does, but there are limits to what we can reasonably expect from him.
HJ
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How do i stop myself sitting round getting bored?
Why i sit on the net posting in the backroom!!!!
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Blue Haddock, if you're there perhaps you could tell us whereabouts you sell Toyotas - you never know, you might get some extra customers.
Without revealing too many secrets, you might also be able to tell us whether Toyota (and also Honda, in my experience) look after their dealers in some way so that they all give a good service to their customers. Others, such as VW / Audi and Renault, seem to vary enormously.
Or is it thst most of them are still owned by families as opposed to large chains whose management are too short-termist to see that money spent on customer care has its eventual rewards?
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I'm not sure if HJ and the mods will allow me such a blatant plug plus some of my brokers advertise on the site so they may not be too best pleased if i start taking business away from them.
Toyota are very keen on customer service and looking after it's customers - we do get a lot of customers who regularly upgrade to the latest version of their car, eg Carina, Carina E, Mk1 Avensis, Current Avensis.
We know parts may not be the cheapest out there but would you rather buy a fiat that regularly needs lots of parts that are fairly cheap or a toyota that pretty much doesn't go wrong but when it is it cost a bit more?
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Saaaaay b_h.
I may tour the country tomorrow and I fancy stopping by and meeting you at work. Which Toyota dealership do you work at?
--
Adam
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Your more than welcome to come in and sample our lovely coffee tomorrow Adam but i myself will not be there!
All i will say to my location is i'm right next door to a VERY big brewery in the midlands
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>>i'm right next door to a VERY big brewery in the midlands>>
Now that's what I call exceptional customer service...:-)
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Toyota are very keen on customer service and looking after it's customers
I've noticed that Toyota dealers seem very keen that you respond to Toyota questionaires. Maybe bh can give us some insight into how the results of these questionaires are used. Are there any sanctions on dealers who get bad results, or bonuses for dealers who get good results?
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Dylan - yes these questions are VERY important to the dealer as they form a large part of the back end bonuses that we get.
As i deal with brokerage customers (full fleet discount)we get very little from each deal and so we rely on these back end payments to make sure we are profitable. A few of the questions on the survey are not applicable to brokerage customers but i always ask my customers to tell a little white lie and answer them on my behalf - pretty much all of them do and i feel that this because i pride myself on going that little bit extra for my customers.
Under Promise - Over deliver.
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