No I haven't done it yet, touch wood. But I was reading the front page of the Telegraph Motoring sction today where this issue was discussed and the huge expense of getting your car fixed afterwards. Up to £7K was mentioned.
It's about time the someone came up with a device for preventing this. I guess the car manufacturers are not going to take the lead since they would argue it's not their fault. But surely some clever person must be able to come up with a method of preventing petrol being put into a diesel.
I am putting my great mind to work. Well, my mind anyway.
|
A Telegraph reader suggested making diesel filler apertures too narrow to take petrol filler nozzles. The trouble is, this has already been done and unleaded filler nozzles and apertures are already thinner than leaded ones. No scope to go down a further size.
HJ
|
|
Tsk, tsk...modern cars....some weeks ago I found myself replacing the black nozzle on the pump; problem was I was driving the Volvo 740. Thank goodness for old carburetted technology and my miserly habit of only putting £10 of fuel in once the gauge is on red; I filled up with unlesded and carried on albeit smoking a little
|
Lots can be done.
BP have/are already changing Ultimate Diesel pipes to black from blue, and putting dangling lable things on the pump handles.
You could have a voice prompt from the pump saying "DIESEL" or "PETROL" when you remove the handle
|
|
Also nice to see HJ pointing out what awful value used Golfs are in the Q&A section this week :)
|
|
|
|
I've seen a design suggested on the web (which I've never since been able to find!) where the diesel nozzle is oval, and a similar shaped adaptor is fitted to diesel filler necks. The wide part of the oval stops the nozzle from going into unleaded petrol fillers, and the narrow part of the adaptor stops petrol nozzles from being inserted. However the nozzle would still fit any unmodified diesel filler necks, so no problem with backwards compatibility.
|
Who's ready for my state of the art idea?
Here we go. It would be hugely expensive and needlessely complicated but at the same time, it would be very cool.
Most car keys have a computer chip in them for the immobilliser and passive security systems. In each key, the chip would contain the fuel type for that car.
When you get to the petrol station, you put the key in some sort of recepticle (preferably silver with flashing lights) and that unlocks the relevant pump. (The rest are of course locked).
Personally, I think it's a damn good idea. None of this "bigger diesel pumps" rubbish. That's sooooo 15th Century.
--
Adam
|
>That's sooooo 15th Century.<
The thing is, Adam, lots of 15th (and 19th) century gadgets are simple and don't fail or pack up in a power cut, etc (though the pump may well do). As one of our regulars signs off - simplicate etc.. Something should be possible with shapes, rather like the infants' toy with triangle, square, etc.?
|
|
|
Adski,
that's similar to my idea. Why not attach an RFID chip, or one of those microchips that vets put into pets, next to the filler opening. They're passive so there's no risk and (apparently) they work at very short range. Put a detector in the pump nozzle and the pump refuses to deliver if it sees a mismatch.
Advantages - it's retrofitable, buy your stick-on microchip at Halfords or the filling station, the chips are cheap and (surely) the detection kit would be cheap. And if you don't buy a chip, the pump delivers and you takes your chances.
The idea to read number plates and check with the DVLA has to come from one of the big consultancies hoping to make a shed load from building and running the system.
John
|
I knew someone would appreciate my idea John - costly though it is!
--
Adam
|
|
|
Adski, that's similar to my idea. Why not attach an RFID chip, or one of those microchips that vets put into pets, next to the filler opening.
I have developed and applied for patent on an anti misfuelling system which utilses RFID technology, there also exists the opotunity to utilise blue tooth in order to alert the driver as to the fact that critical fluids need topping up. i.e. oil, water, wash-wipe, such being displayed on the pumps additional screen, and or printed on your receipt. There is also the pottential to exchange and or extract data for vehicle management purposes whilst refuling using blue tooth. The possibilities are endless.
But personally, I am only interested in reducing misfuelling, 150 fuel tankers worth of fuel is wasted each and every year and it is steadilly rising. However, foreget RFID technology and pumps which protect the motorist against misfuelling. Industry profits £80 million per year from misfuelling, therefore, the petrol companies will do very little to prevent misfuelling unless ordered to by Goverment. UKPIA are aware as to RFID technology and its being a cost effective solution to prevent misfuelling, but are content to have it continue. £80 million per year!!!!
Anyhow, if RFID technology was utilised you would only hear a warning message if you were about to misfuell, no one wants to hear a warning message unless they are about to make a mistake.
|
|
|
|
|
I've seen a design suggested on the web (which I've never since been able to find!) where the diesel nozzle is oval, and a similar shaped adaptor is fitted to diesel filler necks......
>>
I think the link was posted here on a previous thread.
I too have not been able to find said page.
|
|
|
|
You could have a voice prompt from the pump saying "DIESEL" or "PETROL" when you remove the handle
A local filling station near to me does that with the diesel pump. Something along the lines of "Bing Bong!. Warning, this is a diesel pump, are you certain your vehicle uses diesel?"
Out of all the filling stations I've used up and down the length and breadth of the country, it's the only one I've heard with a warning message.
|
"Bing Bong!. Warning, this is a diesel pump, are you certain your vehicle uses diesel?".
Would that be the Nissan garage in Widnes, Dave?
|
"Bing Bong!. Warning, this is a diesel pump, are you certain your vehicle uses diesel?". Would that be the Nissan garage in Widnes, Dave?
Ah, so there is another one then. No, this one's in South Oxfordshire.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well I got away with putting about 5 litres of petrol into a modern Hdi/particle filter EU4 compliant diesel; topped the tank up with diesel when I realised my mistake and that was 10,000 miles ago so perhaps I was just very lucky! You can bet that I check and check again at the pumps these days!
|
The problem with making the hole oval is that you would need to take into account the angle at which the pump enters the hole.
Think of my situation when I pulled up at a pump today. fuel cap on the RHS, pump on the left. There was only just enough hose to reach the hole, and not enough for me to worry about having the nozzel in a particular position.
The oval insert would need to be designed to it would rotate to allow the nozzel entry.
I have a better idea, does anyone know a good patents agent/solicitor?
Hugo
|
Think of my situation when I pulled up at a pump today. fuel cap on the RHS, pump on the left. There was only just enough hose to reach the hole, and not enough for me to worry about having the nozzel in a particular position.
That's quite easily fixed by using the 'correct' side of the pump, or reversing to the pump :-)
I know what you mean though - I used to do this all the time in my 406 Estate. Now I've got a Merc C Class estate. It's near as damn it the same size, with the filler in more or less the same place, but the will the nozzle's reach round? No! And there always seemed to be a pretty girl in sports car next to me when I tried!! I've given up trying now.
|
|
If people can't select the correct fuel, they shouldn't really be drivers.
|
I drive a petrol mondeo and a diesel isuzu. I always double check the pump - suprising how many times driving back late at night that i have nearly made a costly mistake.
Paul
|
The real answer is a 'diesel fuel quality' sensor installed in the car's fuel line. These already exist, althought the price would have to fall for them to be fitted in series production. If fuel was detected to be 'out of spec' then a buzzer and red light would alert the driver.
Its not just petrol contamination that's the problem, water contamination can be a problem too..
|
I once almost got caught out in Belgium using a green coloured pump thinking it was unleaded. Before inserting I took the precaution of giving the nozzle a good sniff, which while not doing me a lot of good, enabled me to tell it was in fact diesel.
That aside, why can they not employ the simple and straightforward solution of having a large visible tag on the pump handle which says DIESEL or PETROL? No RFID required!
|
www.dieselguard.com does a gizmo that fits inside the fuel flap and warns you whenever you open it. Has a light sensitive switch. Works like a talking birthday card. Made in China. They sent me one so I'll stick it behind my flap today. (It speaks in loud American: "Beep...beep...beep (not the swear filter) This vehicle runs on diesel fuel only.....insert diesel fuel only.....insert diesel fuel only.")
Hasty late edit. This gizmo is 70mm x 40mm x 7mm and will not fit behind the fuel flap of a C-Max so maybe won't fit a lot of cars. And once you expose the light-sensitive switch it won't shut up.
HJ
|
|
I mentioned this device a few months ago, somewhere else in the forum, and was fairly sharply told off re the fuel filler and the proximity of the small battery needed to power the voice chip. Fear of a spark and raging inferno I guess
|
|
What about just writing "Diesel" on the filler cap?
|
what ever happened to simply concentrating on the task in hand?
I have a knack for doing stupid things but when I stop for petrol, I check that I?ve got the right pump. I check it was put back in the right cradle, I check it as I pump it in and I check it when it stops. I check it when I walk to the kiosk and I check it on my receipt. It?s one of the few times I?m not thinking about naked chicks.
|
|
Well said BBB, if you're going to do a simple task of filling a car with fuel that could leave you stranded or with an expensive bill, you get it right...It says diesel on the pump, the nozzle (usually) and behind the filler cap, it also displays the grade selected on the digital display of the pump!. People really shouldn't be driving if they can't get that right, all this talk of triangular nozzles and RFID chips makes one want to emmigrate! We are talking about adults here, not 2 year olds. "To protect man from his folly is to produce a nation of fools."
|
Well I've always laughed at people who do this, until - I did it. Luckily I realised straight away and put 7p worth of petrol in.
My excuse is that I was at a filling station where you had to put your credit card into the pump first. I was using that garage for the first time, and it was one of the first few times I'd bought diesel.
So you open the fuel flap, take the cap off then do battle with the card reader. It wouldn't take the first card I tried, so I tried another (there's now a queue behind me). Eventually it accepted that card so I gratefully grabbed the (wrong) pump and pulled the trigger. I don't know why but I thankfully realised almost immediately. Dispensing only 7p then caused the pump to have a fit and it wouldn't let me restart a new transaction. So I skulked off to find a 'proper' filling station.
As I drive both petrol and diesel cars now, I've developed the habit of stopping straight away and rechecking that all's correct.
|
>what ever happened to simply concentrating on the task in hand?<
Absolutely. Once people in a hurry began to expect pumps to tell them of their mistake they wouldn't bother to check. Much better to learn to look after your own errors. Too many zombies about already.
|
I must admit, I've never put the wrong fuel in a car. Probably because I've never owned a diesel but after all these talks on here, I've found myself sub-consciously doing something.
I pick the pump up whilst tracing the pipe back to make sure it's on the right holder, then I'll check the pence per litre display on the pump to make sure it is unleaded I'm putting in. It's weird - I've never come across a pump in the wrong slot before yet I only noticed myself doing this the other day.
--
Adam
|
AS - I think this would be more of a worry with petrol since IIRC diesel is far less volatile than petrol and actually quite hard to ignite accidentally.
Speaking as a fairly recent petrol-diesel convert, IMO pumps are pretty clearly labelled and colour coded (as are car fuel filler) so I tend to agree with those others here who've suggested that rather than more gadgets/gizmos for people to rely on, what's really required is for drivers to pay just a little bit more attention to what they're doing when filling up.
|
the forum, and was fairly sharply told off re the fuel filler and the proximity of the small battery needed to power the voice chip. Fear of a spark and raging inferno I guess
Thankfully the design of this device; the Dieselguard took into account the fact that it would be used in a petro-chemical enviroment. Also, that some bright spark might just accidentally squirt diesel all over and into the unit just for fun was a possibility. Therefore, in order to safeguard against the likelihood of spark and or short circut resulting in ignition, the device is housed within an enclosure which is hermatically sealed by way of ultrasound in the manafacturing process. This ensures that the unit is both air tight and water tight thus preventing the possibilty of any type of spark being produced by the device. It also protects the internal components from corrosion by the elements. >> I mentioned this device a few months ago, somewhere else in
|
Only problem is Dieselguard is too big to fit behind a lot of fuel flaps, mine included as I discovered when I tried to instal it today.
HJ
|
|
The local BP garage here in Spain has the "talking" pumps - only problem is they use the older term "gasóleo" for diesel (although everybody calls it diesel), and "gasolina" for petrol; also the voice only gives the confirmation when the pump starts.
|
Small sticker on the dashboard under the fuel gauge, big sticker on the outside of the filler flap, small sticker on the filler cap, all saying DIESEL in big capitals. And dont fill up-or drive- when you are absolutely shattered. That should do it.
Regards
Barchettaman
|
Small sticker on the dashboard under the fuel gauge big sticker on the outside of the filler flap small sticker on the filler cap all saying DIESEL in big capitals. That should do it.
Don't forget that some people can't read or write, and some that can read can't spell, and some people are dyslexic. Some people are hard of hearing so an audible warning might not work. Some people are colour blind so colour coding isn't foolproof. The only way is to have filler neck and nozzle shapes that match.
|
Square nozzle for diesel
Round for unleaded
Star shaped for super
Can see the cost of fuel going up to pay for that lot!
Edited by b308 on 30/09/2008 at 10:07
|
|
Expanding on b308's suggestion .......... Diesel ~ square nozzle. Petrol ~ round nozzle with diameter halfway between across flats and across corners dimensions of diesel nozzle. Filler necks to suit.
Edited by L'escargot on 30/09/2008 at 10:13
|
Common sense and paying attention to what you are doing might help?
? I just cannot see how any one that is driving a given fuelled type vehicle forgets what it is running on?
Fit a sender to the vehicle so as you drive on to the forecourt, there would be a ?device? to read the data that would allocate the vehicle to the correct pump type.
OR
Put back on to the forecourts - the attendants.
They could also show you where the correct fuels for your vehicle are and would do the task for you if they saw you struggling.
If you should need them, they too could guide you to the toilets - they might even wipe & clean your windscreen for you too ;-)
|
|
problem with all the ideas for preventing numpties from breaking something is that they all cost and when these ideas becomes mainstream us non-numpties end up paying extra on things for other peoples mistakes....i mean come on choosing Petrol or Diesel not exactly rocket science is it.
|
|
|
|
A possible solution is to colour the tarmac on a forecourt. Green channel for u/l and black for diesel, then have all the u/l pumps on one side of a garage and all diesel pumps on the other. For those who are colourblind, they can just watch out for the greasier looking tarmac covered in patches of sand soaking up spilt diesel.
|
|
|
