What amazes me about high powered german cars is that you can actually still steer and brake at these sort of speeds.
And the world doesn't end - as we've been bred to believe in the UK
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735310 - Total sense in an upside down world.
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Slight digression. I like to max each car I own at least once, purely to 'see what she'll do' as it were. My pitiful history is as follows:
Fiat Panda, 999Fire, 4spd, 83mph
VW Polo 1043cc, 4spd, 95mph
Fiesta Mk3, 1.1, 5spd, 105mph (with the aid of a steep hill)
Pug 306 xrdt, 5spd, 110mph
Focus 1.8, 5spd, 120mph
Anybody else do this?
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No of course not never done that, it obsviously dangerous and more of a threat to a safe soceity than a busful of drug pushers, ;-)
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Huge variation of speed and experience here. You can actually pull higher speeds on two lane blacktops where you won't be seen than on motorways where you probably will be. The thing is, if you are going to go very quickly you have to look a lot further ahead. So if the car is doing 140 and accelerating, if you see a sign for a sideroad ahead something could very easily pull out of it into your path thinking you are doing 60. That's the difference between road and track. You can safely pull 150 on public roads, but you cannot sustain it. You always have to stay super alert for other, much slower drivers. Then you don't have accidents. And, hopefully, you don't get done.
(I should have added that the cars that accelerate most quickly also tend to be abe to brake the most quickly, and that makes a very big difference. In a Mercedes E63 AMG or a current M5 you can knock off 100mph in the distance it takes for an ordinary car to knock off 50mph.)
HJ
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.....and it makes a considrable difference to the sheep and car f you hit one at 150mph...................!
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Just drivers? How about other road users, with a greater speed differential. Maybe a lack of foresight creates the sad end to many supercar drivers with more money than skill. As for braking I doubt the propaganda, HJ. Try the SS and other brake and driver reaction time equations, and you''ll find that the extra braking distance from say 120 versus 70 is considerable, assuming road tyres on public roads @1.0g and 0.5 seconds reaction time. 120mph = 190 yards. 70mph = 72 yards. i don't believe that an M5 would brake much more quickly than 1g.
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I find instinct a lot more reliable than mathematics. physics, equations, dogma and rulebooks. You know when you can pull 140 safely. And you know when you can't drive at 30 safely, Like, for instance, when a 4 year old kid you'd been watching on the sidewalk suddenly disappears into a shadow.
HJ
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>>I find instinct a lot more reliable than
Instinct is something you are born with. You are not born with the ability to drive a car. It is a learned skill. I think you'll find "judgement" is the point you're trying to make.And whilst judgement may well be better than dogma and rulebooks, it will fail to conquer physics.
Even allowing for that, I am interested in how your "instinct" determines when a tyre is likely to let go, when there will be debris in the road, or when an animal is likely to appear from nowhere.
I do not believe that 140mph is *EVER* safe on a public road. And yes, I have done that and more. Doesn't make it right. Doesn't make me big or clever. However, there may be times when the risk is acceptable to you. Now perhaps that's fine with your driving and perhaps your judgement is good, but there are some nutters and incompetents out there and I would rather not be subject to their judgement of risk and safety.
And even with good judgement, you are mroe likely to be wrong at 140mph than to be wrong at 40mph. And the consequences will be somewhat more noticable as well.
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I do not believe that 140mph is *EVER* safe on a public road. And yes, I have done that and more. Doesn't make it right. Doesn't make me big or clever. However, there may be times when the risk is acceptable to you. And even with good judgement, you are mroe likely to be wrong at 140mph than to be wrong at 40mph. And the consequences will be somewhat more noticable as well.
You're being honest FMR but missing the point slightly.
The question is where do you draw the line between acceptable and unacceptable risk? It's an individual thing, very variable obviously and as you point out for very good reason. But I have to say you can't be a po-faced safety freak and a sporting motorist at the same time, Toad crossed with Ken Livingstone... Which side are you really on?
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>>The question is where do you draw the line between acceptable and unacceptable risk?
You can't. And that's the issue. Because two different people will draw the line in two different places. Even reasonable people might decide substantially differently and, isnce it sfrequently almost religious, never reach agreement.
Inevitably therefore, even in a non Livingston/Blair world, the law will step in and dictate a line. That will be too slow for some, for most perhaps, and too fast for others. I don't know how you get around that except perhaps loading the roads up with significant numbers of trained police drivers who will then make subjective decisions based on their feelings of your speed and your driving competence and behaviour.
Trouble is, we used to have that and it is very expensive, and people won't pay, and the guy who is told by the police he was driving badly will not accept it and will then go into every letter and comma of the law to prove that he wasn't wrong or incompetent. To combat that we move to rules enforced without judgement - for example by cameras.
Oh....
>>But I have to say you can't be a po-faced safety freak and a sporting motorist at the same time
I don't really understand why you would "have to say" that, but if you're asking me, then I would not consider myself to be a member of either group.
>>Which side are you really on?
Neither do I feel the need to chose between "sides" simply to satisfy anybody's need to categorise.
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> >>Which side are you really on? Neither do I feel the need to chose between "sides" simply to satisfy anybody's need to categorise.
I suppose you're saying it all for the sake of argument FMR, but by admitting to having driven over 140mph you clearly identify yourself as Toad, and by implying, as you do, that merely going that fast is risky in itself, you align yourself with the other lot... of course I am aware that we're all unique, complex etc. and would never seek to categorise a fellow enthusiast as anything else... or aren't you that either :o)?
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and by implying, as you do, that merely going that fast is risky in itself, you align yourself with the other lot.
No, I did not imply that. I stated it. That does not align me with anybody. I do not align myself with one "lot" or the other. If you feel more comfortable doing so, then by all means carry on.
By the way, would you maintain that driving at 140mph is or is not inherently more risky than driving at 30mph. That is not to say that either is 100% safe, but simply that there is more risk with one than the other ?
>>I suppose you're saying it all for the sake of argument FMR
Like most of your conclusions that would appear to be flawed. And that would be "No FM2R", not some arbitrary collecition of some of the letters.
would never seek to categorise a fellow enthusiast as anything else... or aren't you that either :o)?
Why do you have this need to categorise me as anything ?
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I remember reading an Autocar road test from back in 1988 for a Peugeot 405 1.9 SRI, They managed a 1.1 G stop in the wet without ABS brakes ( optional extra that wasnt fitted ) on normal 185 65 14 H rated Pirelli P6 tyres.
Pretty sure a M5 could pull more then 1G under braking.
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I always thought (perhaps incorrectly) that when you get raised off the seat during heavy braking, you must be generating more than 1G simply to overcome gravity?
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Not forgetting of course that gentle bends on motorways and dual carriageways are often quite different kettles of fish at 140+. Particularly on a bike!
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>>In a Mercedes E63 AMG or a current M5 you can knock off 100mph in the distance it takes for an ordinary car to knock off 50mph.
IIRC Top Gear managed to get a car to stop from 70mph in the distance the Highway Code says is necessary for 30mph. It took a number of attempts, but they did it.
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Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
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Can confirm HJ's thoughts. pulled an indicated 115mph on the A6 dual carriageway from Whaley Bridge to Chapel-en-le-frith a month ago. A dry day, no traffic and no junctions for three miles. The car felt better all day afterwards.
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In a car: Indicated 135MPH and it was still accelerating.
On a bike: Indicated 180MPH (but speedo was off due to gearing change) and that was all she had to give. Throttle wound open to the stop in 6th and held there for a good 20 miles.
If anyone is interested where I achieved the speed here is a link to the map.
tinyurl.co.uk/v2ub
Its the US 27 (divided dual carriageway) between I-75 and Belle Glade. Long straight road, no junctions (the blue lines are irrigation canals) and the odd farm gate/entrance would have been shut on those very early sunday mornings. In any case you can see for miles ahead due to the flat terrain, though the biggest danger would be from animals in the road which aren't as easy to spot. 10ft long alligators, while dangerous in their own right, present an even more formidable danger if you hit them at triple digit speeds 8-)
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Last week across several cars I got an indicated 161mph breifly on one as the speed overshot the 160mph the limiter would alow the car to do.
All cars were AMG mercs on a test track and I can vouch that they stop very quickly even on a damp surface... and the ESP works very well indeed!
I had one car to 150mph on the autoban on the way to the track late at night, but on the way home during the day I only briefly managed 135mph.
The SLK was down abit on top speed as it had a V6 but it would be ahead of the pack until you went for sixth around 130MPH.
Big speeds are very pointless, I was getting 30 - 45 minutes out of a full tank of fuel. If you lived in fairy tale land were you could sustain this speed it would be quicker to travel closer to 100Mph and re-fuel less often.
The 5.5 V8's had about 2,000 rpm left to give, teasing you when at thier limited top speed. Under full throttle the limiter wall can be quite a severe, especially as you are too busy looking at the road ahead to notice when it is approaching. A HUD of the speed would have been usefull for this.
The Mercedes adaptave cruise control runs out of steam at 200kph, which is probably a good thing. If you cannot apply the brakes yourself you should not be going that fast!
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i do the same and my list is thus:
nova 1.2 105mph downhill - valves were certainly bouncing
escort 1.3 l-reg 110mph
honda coupe 1.5 132mph downhill
escort gti 1.8 132mph
leon cupra 148mph in germany with a bmw 330 diesel - couldnt overtake him!
rover 414 n-reg 115mph
peugeot 406 est 1.8 115mph - it really is a slow barge!
current car is the 406 so i wont be setting any pb's anytime soon!
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