You can sign a petition against the latest round of motoring tax at:
petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/
HJ
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I'll sign it.
Reduce motoring taxes, increase Income Tax to compensate, that'll suit me nicely!
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Well at least it would be honest...
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As this government takes not a blind bit of notice of what those who elected it (plus the rest of us) would like to happen, it really seems, on the surface, to be a pointless exercise.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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whooha stuarti we agree...............
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This impassioned e-mail recently arrived. These are edited highlights:-
" READ THIS...it takes less than 2 minutes to read and sign. ITS IMPORTANT. IT WILL AFFECT YOU IF YOU ARE A DRIVER.
Sign and send on to all of your mates, because before you know it the nice gentlemen will be taxing us for breathing and that's no longer the joke it used to be!
It was stated on the news that one of the reasons this proposal has been suggested was to raise money for possible road building and improvements to existing roads. It should be noted: of all the money currently collected by the DVLA for road fund licenses, only 23%- 24% is actually spent on road building and improvements!
The government's proposal to introduce road pricing will mean you having
to purchase a tracking device for your car and paying a monthly bill to use it.
The tracking device will cost about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC, the lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist and £194 for a delivery driver.
A non working Mum who used the car to take the kids to school paid £86 in one month.
On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will
know where you are at all times. They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit you
can expect a NIP with your monthly bill.
If you care about our freedoms and stopping the constant bashing of the
car driver, please sign the petition on No 10's new website
Sign up here petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/
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That's me signed up as I feel it is only a tax that the better off can afford and will only make the traffic lighter by removing those that can not afford it. And of course it will add greatly to the chancellors coffers.
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Let me get this right; you protest about how you're not happy about Big Brother spying tactics by giving your name, email and postal address to Number 10's website?
I think that might need a little more thought.
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Doesn't bother me as this is not America,or the Eastern Block........expecting a few replies to this ;-).
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Quite right mal. What on earth makes people imagine that the authorities haven't got their details already? Be paranoid by all means, but about threats not commonplace bureaucracy.
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I've just signed this - about five minutes ago - but I've not received an e-mail to confirm that it was I who signed it.
Noticed there were 6,685 signatories. Do you think someone at no. 10 is trying to prevent more being added?
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im not wasting the ink on my keyboard
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Have you noticed the subtle change to the what was once called a Road Fund License.
The adverts currently running on the media,warning that there is no escape from the computer,we know where you are etc,now refer to it as " Car Tax "
Give it a few years,and current drivers will have completely forgotton that Car Tax was once called a Road Fund License and that it's purpose was the upkeep of the road system.
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>>. It shouldbe noted: of all the money currently collected by the DVLA for road fund licenses, only 23%- 24% is actually spent on road building and improvements!
It should also be noted that funds are also collected from the Fuel you buy to travel on 'The Queens Highway' in the form of Taxes !!.
Ok Agreed about Road Pricing, but what about Bridge and Tunnel pricing too. Which again, funds are collected to raise money for possible road building and improvements to existing roads
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Just signed it...
But can someone please clarify, is this DEFINATELY coming in or is still at proposal stage?
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>>>On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will
>>>know where you are at all times.
This always makes me laugh. Do you have a mobile phone? Yes? Then someone knows where you are all the time.
As this device is attached to your car, it only knows where your car is and not you, so if your bothered about that kind of thing it's less intrusive than having a mobile.
Terry...
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IMO, it's not about the intrusion, it's the simple fact that if you make the slightest mistake in going over the speed limit (or bus lanes, etc) the capability will be there to fine you immediately. All stick and no carrot?
It would be better to fit active speed limiters (using GPS) than face the constant threat of points for drifting over a limit at any time, on any road.
Of course, back to issues of intrusion, nobody is forced to a) carry a mobile, or b) have it switched on. So you can protect your privacy, if you so choose. A tracking device in every car precludes that possibility. You could easily imagine a situation where you happen to have parked next to the scene of a serious crime, and with the lack of any other suspects, get dragged in by the police (and possibly held without charge for weeks or months, but that's another story) just because your car recorded you being in the wrong place at the wrong time? In this kind of police state mentality, even the innocent have everything to fear.
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Do you have a mobile phone? Yes? Then someone knows where you are all the time.
Only if you've got it switched on. ;-)
--
L\'escargot.
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is this DEFINATELY coming in oris still at proposal stage?
Think you'll find it's still officially at proposal stage, but if you can find a major political party with the chance of forming a government in the foreseeable future that hasn't jumped on the bandwagon to a lesser or greater degree............
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They were discussing this on BBC Breakfast News this morning.
I only caught the tail end of the report, but apparently it now has 50,000 signatures and has got politicans tongues wagging, saying "ooh, perhaps this isn't the solution"
If you haven't signed yet, SIGN IT. It seems to be working!!
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I've signed.
Petition swithout addresses are meaningless and ignored.
Personally I think the chances of a UK wide system in the next 10 years are zero (cost, IT failings ,politics) but local ones targetted at problem areas are more likely.
It's when people start asking "but where is the money being spent?" that the REAL problems come. (100: 1 ON it will be frittered away on a stoopid scheme like buying Trident for £29Billion when the MOD can't afford body armour for a real war!:-(
madf
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Excuse me for displaying my ignorance but who is Peter Roberts, the originator of this petition?
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L\'escargot.
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Doesn't matter. Anyone can set up a new official petition on this government site, which I suppose is the whole point of such a thing.
Some of them are very silly indeed, others look like very valid causes.
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In my experience of public life any petition, no matter how many signatures it carries, is regarded by the authorities as just ONE objection to whatever is proposed.
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I understand it will take 10 years to bring in. One backroomer states that you are already tracked if you have a mobile 'phone, the difference is you choose to have a mobile 'phone. It will be the same old story anyway, the law abiding will cough up and the others will ignore it while we pay for them...twas always thus.
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All petitions are pointless. No matter how many million people sign them, that still leaves 55-x million who didn't. That's a good enough mandate for any government to do exactly what it likes.
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All petitions are pointless. No matter how many million people sign them, that still leaves 55-x million who didn't.
How did the minority get the sensible Community Charge ( aka "Poll Tax") withdrawn?
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L\'escargot.
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The Poll Tax was withdrawn on account of civil unrest plus disloyal MInisters worried about losing their seats. If you don't agree with a law you use the democratic process. Those protestors got everything they deserved.
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The democratic process only works if politicians are true to their word. Most are wicked and deceitful.
e.g. we were supposed to have a world class 'integrated transport system' by now according to Two Jags, we have paid the taxes, but everythings worse than ever, all systems broken.
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How did the minority get the sensible Community Charge ( aka "Poll Tax") withdrawn?
Sensible in theory, but a nightmare to enforce in practice, hence it's demise. I am one of thousands who evaded it by moving house (and council) and not informing my new council of my residence. So simple.
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So Boxterboy evaded paying the Poll Tax?
That means that the law abiding majority had to pay his share for him.
Boxterboy is not to be admired, he is in the same group that do not pay for their motor insurance.
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So Boxterboy evaded paying the Poll Tax? That means that the law abiding majority had to pay his share for him. Boxterboy is not to be admired, he is in the same group that do not pay for their motor insurance.
No. Motor insurance is not a tax. It is a cost you encur when you decide to run a car. Like fuel, servicing, etc.
I am not boasting at my evasion of Poll Tax, merely pointing out its main problem - that of collection from an ever transient population.
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The count will pass 250K today
For the latest see
petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/?signed=1
Deadline to sign up by: 20 February 2007
Keep spreading the word !
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I saw in today's Telegraph that Bliar is to press ahead with road pricing, despite the petition.
So much for the democratic process.
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You could always go to:
www.tiny.cc/WnGQj
And type this or something like it. Focus his mind a tiny amount perhaps if lots of people did it.
Dear Tony,
Just to let you know I will categorically not be voting Labour next time based purely on your stance on road pricing.
Yours etc.
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I signed last year, but in a perverse way I'm glad he is ignoring it, because that means Road Pricing is highly likely to become Labours Poll Tax, and cause their demise. Not that the opposition (Conservatives) have any answer.
And they wonder why there is such voter apathy!
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I saw in today's Telegraph that Bliar is to press ahead with road pricing, despite the petition. So much for the democratic process.
Once a political party has been given a majority mandate to govern the country then surely they should be allowed to do so without receiving any petty whingeing?
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L\'escargot.
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Once a political party has been given a majority mandate to govern the country then surely they should be allowed to do so without receiving any petty whingeing? -- L\'escargot.
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So was road pricing in their last manifesto?
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It must still be growing at quite a rate.
I've just signed and the front page only lists the last 500 to sign, by the time I'd confirmed and viewed the list I was about 30 from the bottom of the 500!
Refreshed again and I was off the bottom!!!!
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It must still be growing at quite a rate.
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Over 60K in the last 24 hours
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I think the tracking issue is the main problem, I would not mind paying a toll to use a major road or motorway, as one does in France but I don't want a busybody asking or knowing what I was doing in Surrey at 9 pm on a Friday night. I do not have anything to hide, but its my business and not anyone elses!
Signed
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I think road pricing is highly likely to be implemented eventually at least on major routes.
There are a series of interesting articles and surveys of real people on the IPPR website.
www.ippr.org/publicationsandreports/publication.as...5
What is interesting is there is more support than you think but a huge way still to go to get the idea wholeheartedly supported. Ultimately it seems to be one of trust or lack of it. Few people trust the Govt to implement a revenue neutral system or even get the system up and running without glitches or a feeling that some are getting away without paying.
I hope eventually it will be up and running as although I contribute to this site and enjoy talking about cars and their wider impact, I don't drive a car, use public transport every day and obviously don't do very long distance commuting unlike some on this site and out in the outside world. I think ultimately changing the relative cost of motoring vs other modes and vs homeworking/better home/work location via road charging would ultimately improve things on a number of fronts and encourage fewer car miles while not reducing car ownership necessarily. Hopefully we would move to less long distance car commuting dependent culture as I have observed on the continent.
(Runs for cover...)
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The ippr will cherry pick the people to get the results they want if they are anything like other market research people. Questions are geared towards answers they want and make it harder for people to disagree with a principle as they make it seem more appealing eg they say it will be tag & beacon and only cost 5 p a mile. Most people wouldn't object. If you say it is going to be full on busy body tracking and it will cost £1 a mile 99% of motorists will tell them where to stick their plan. Usual trick of appearing to be reasonable but upping the anti at the last minute. They also do it the other way round by suggesting the more outrageous ideas and seeing what the reaction is.
The current situation is a direct result of govt intervention and failed planning. They should be sorting out the root causes not penalising people for trying to make a living. Currently many people are beginning to see the folly of work as you just have so much hard earned removed from you with little to show for it. Once people decide to quit work and live on the dole or in the black economy then the UK is up the spout. People are already choosing to do this by having buy to let properties and renovations instead of doing a normal job. If you can make a year's salary in 3 months why work for 12 months a year for an employer producing something or offering something when you can play the over inflated property market?
teabelly
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What our sear gov't does not say but should is:
Wars cost money. A LOT.We're fighting two at once. So we tax everything that moves.
All the rest is lies and spin (i.e. normal)
madf
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I think road pricing is highly likely to be implemented eventually at least on major routes.
I hope eventually it will be up and running as although I contribute to this site and enjoy talking about cars and their wider impact, I don't drive a car, use public transport every day and obviously don't do very long distance commuting unlike some on this site and out in the outside world. I think ultimately changing the relative cost of motoring vs other modes and vs homeworking/better home/work location via road charging would ultimately improve things on a number of fronts and encourage fewer car miles while not reducing car ownership necessarily. Hopefully we would move to less long distance car commuting dependent culture as I have observed on the continent. (Runs for cover...)
I think you've got a point here, but the problem is that it is far too complex to be 'solved' by road pricing.
Most people commute long distances because they can't afford to live near where they work, especially in London and South East (e.g. firemen commuting from Lincolnshire to London and sleeping in the fire station between shifts). The real problem is that we are over-crowded (and becomming more so) in the south-east. If we are to be able to afford to live close to where we work, there would have to be massive housebuilding on non-existent land. Overnight. It just ain't gonna happen. France and Germany are far less crowded, housing is generally more affordable and so people don't commute so far.
Planning decisions have led to office, industrial, retail and housing developments to be built out-of-town with very little or no serious public transport.
I'm sure that those very few people who are fortunate to earn enough to live and work in London can see the 'benefits' of road pricing, but when 90% of all journeys (IIRC) are made by road, road pricing will have a massive impact on the vast majority of the population and the cost of all those home deliveries. The economy would surely just bgrind to a halt.
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If you want to know where all the money from RFL goes, and gets wasted, then goto here.
burningourmoney.blogspot.com/
Toodle Pip
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We have all known for years that the source of taxes and where they are spent do not match up. Live with it - that's a modern economy. Complaints of 'extra' taxes 'lining the Chancellor's coffers' are also silly. He has to get the money from somewhere - raise one tax and another is relieved. By all means object to the overall level of taxation if you wish.
The question is - should motoring be curbed? Much as I enjoy it - yes it should. It pollutes and the roads are too crowded. How to do it? Either pass laws to ban certain motoring or tax it more to discourage it. Which would you prefer?
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Mattster
Boycott shoddy build and reliability.
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"raise one tax and another is relieved"
Oh really Mattster? Do you seriously believe that?
If it were true then the tax take, expressed as a percentage of gross domestic turnover, would be unchanged over time. Instead, it is creeping steadily upwards.
Expecting a politician to cut taxes is like expecting a thief to creep up on himself and steal his own wallet.
i object to road pricing for many reasons (including the big brother element) but my main objection is that there will be no (or no serious) reduction of other taxes (motoring or otherwise) to offset it. The state will then just be gulping down an ever larger slice of my pay packet to feed an ever larger army of civil servants.
It continues to amaze me that people are talking about this in terms of the effect it will have on the environment/congestion etc. That's falling hook line and sinker for the governments spin.
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"The state will then just be gulping down an ever larger slice of my pay packet to feed an ever larger army of civil servants."
Always good to see the CS getting the blame. However the facts don't stack up:
Civil service numbers crossed the half a million mark in the Second World War, and peaked at over one million, or around 4 per cent of all jobs, in the 1960s. Even in the mid 1970s civil service numbers stood at nearly three quarters of a million. At that time, civil service jobs accounted for 2.8 per cent of total jobs in the economy. They have generally been on a downward trend since. Ten years ago, just 1.9 per cent of British jobs were in the civil service. Now it is 1.8 per cent.
In the past twelve months, civil service staff numbers have fallen by 14,000, or more than 2 per cent. With the continual outsourcing of services such as IT to the likes of EDS, this trend can only continue.
You don't have to look to far to see why the tax take is constantly rising. I would like to know how the Government can justify an annual IT budget of £12bn. And the amount of money our occupation of Iraq is costing is eye-watering. I hope we don't ever have to help the Americans with anything in the future, the way our Navy's going I expect all we will be able to provide is a rubber dinghy...
And yes, I agree with the petition and will be adding my name.
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>> It must still be growing at quite a rate. >>
Just passed 333,333
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Best to just kick the man out at the next election.
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Now passed 500,000
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And the counter petition supporting tracking has now reached a massive....93...signatures.
V
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Signed. Thanks for bringing this petition to our attention HJ....I wasn't aware of this site before.
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Wealth of most of the west is now debt-generated rather than income-generated.
The government needs to find other ways of robbing us, as everything goes to pot.
This talks about USA but is true for us too I think...
www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/mchugh/2007/...l
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