Motoring ASBOs

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Sat 19 May 2007 15:49
Motoring ASBOs - Honestjohn
I Forum searched for this because it rang a bell. Could not find anything, so apologies if I am re-running something here.

Looks quite worrying to me:-

From The Scotsman - Mon 14 May 2007 - ABD

Police are issuing ASBOs for some driving offences in a bid to clamp down on 'boy racers', despite fears this may infringe drivers' human rights.

How speeding on the A1 landed me with an ASBO
MIKE J WILSON
FIRST there were traffic wardens and traffic police, then parking enforcers, tow-away squads, speed cameras, average-speed cameras and number-plate-recognition technology. Now, the motorist has something new to worry about - the ASBO.

There's no need to fit the archetypal ASBO profile - teenage boy-racer, drug-dealing neighbour from hell or a hoodie loitering with intent. You can just be an ordinary car-owner, driving a fraction too fast, or misjudging a manoeuvre, and, within 36 hours, you too can be the owner of an ASBO.

I'm in my mid-50s with a clean driving licence, and was driving along - in a taxed and insured two-year-old car - when I was stopped on a clear, quiet Sunday evening by Lothian and Borders Police on a sliproad off the A1 in East Lothian. I was certainly speeding (but not excessively) and signalling to make a late manoeuvre on to the off-ramp (probably carelessly, but neither aggressively nor dangerously - the key components of anti-social behaviour). The only other vehicle involved on the periphery of what was nothing near a collision - the only potential witness - sped off into the night, its occupants presumably neither alarmed nor distressed.

Invited into the rear of the marked police car, personal details were taken and my identity, address, age, car ownership, tax and insurance all checked out satisfactorily. Was the charge to be speeding, careless driving or perhaps simply a stern ticking-off?

I was shocked when the constable said: "We're issuing you with an ASBO. Should you, this vehicle or any other vehicle driven by you be involved in a similar incident in the next 12 months, the vehicle will be impounded." Just 36 hours later, faster than some responses to routine call-outs, ASBO/49/LA/ 07 arrived by first-class post.
Unsure of the status or implications of a motoring ASBO, the officer at Lothian and Borders Police Vehicle Recovery Scheme, the advised point of contact on the letter, said: "Nothing to do with us, phone your local authority or nearest police station."

The local authority said it was a police matter. Supt Martin Gordon of Lothian and Borders Police in Haddington said: "There is no right of appeal, other than to challenge the actual legislation."

I tried the Executive's Justice Department, but a dismissive and less-than-civil servant said: "I've no idea what you are talking about. Sounds like a reserved matter. Speak to the Department of Transport."
The DoT said: "Nothing to do with us. If it's a justice matter, speak to Executive Justice Department."

The Law Society of Scotland was more helpful and suggested the term ASBO was misleading - the police were, in effect, using powers under the Anti-social Behaviour, etc (Scotland) Act 2004, which allow the police to deal with the anti-social use of motor vehicles either on public roads or off road. I was told: "In the first instance, police are required to warn the person and when a warning has already been issued the police then have the power to stop and to seize and remove the vehicle."

The measure was introduced by the parliament in 2005 and, while police must have reasonable grounds that either careless and inconsiderate driving and/or illegal off-road driving has occurred, they must also have reasonable grounds for believing the vehicle is or has been used in a manner causing, or likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public - ie there has to be an anti-social element to the circumstances.

The measure, I was assured, wasn't designed to be an alternative to criminal road traffic offences such as speeding or careless driving, but was created ostensibly to counter the archetypal "boy racer". Ken Dale-Risk, a lecturer in Criminal Law and Human Rights at Napier University Centre for Law, says ASBOs and on-the-spot-fines are "an increasing part of the Scottish legal landscape", but motoring ASBOs are quite unusual: "The impression I form is that there is a drift towards summary justice, which has a lower burden of proof - the balance of probability as opposed to beyond reasonable doubt. However, I am somewhat surprised to see ASBO legislation being applied to standard road traffic violations. There may well be a human rights element to this 'shortcut to justice', where, if the police consider 'anti-social driving' is continuing, there is a danger of the vehicle being impounded. Access to due process is denied and the consequences are disproportionate to the conduct."

Under the Freedom of Information Act, Lothian & Borders Police revealed: "In 2006, there were 565 ASBO warnings issued to drivers of vehicles and 130 ASBO warnings, 54 vehicles were seized as a result of previous ASBO warnings received against either the car or the driver."

The AA said: "This raises very serious issues concerning traffic enforcement and, if the [ASBO] process becomes the norm, natural justice becomes seriously diluted. We are surprised by the numbers involved and will be writing to the Chief Constable of Lothian and Borders Police about the matter."

A senior police officer, who did not wish to be identified, said: "The ASBO system can mean serious offenders not being adequately punished and minor offenders becoming stigmatised and alienated from their natural instincts to support the police."

Meanwhile, for someone who has driven 30,000 miles a year for 30 years and considers driving a hobby, it's an anxious wait until next spring to ensure I don't join the ranks of the ASBO impounded.
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Sat 19 May 2007 16:48
Motoring ASBOs - Lud
Does seem a bit worrying. I note that Mr Wilson is engagingly frank about a fairly carp and offhand bit of driving of the sort most of us do sometimes if we are honest enough to admit it. Plod in this case seems to be being a bit heavy-handed. But don't the police fly provocative kites like this sometimes to explore the possibilities of new laws, or even to point up their absurdity and torpedo them? I like to think so anyway.
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Sat 19 May 2007 16:50
Motoring ASBOs - Hamsafar
The reason they use ASBOs is because they don't count towards the crimes figures, so they hand these out and say - Crime down again!
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Thu 10 Sep 2009 08:46
Motoring ASBOs - Asbo Boy
Getting a Motoring ASBO for Being A Geordie? !!!

Hello, my name is Steve and I have an ASBO....

Not your average, nasty neighbour from hell ASBO, but one for being a 46 year old Geordie - oh and for driving a Volvo.

Well, that is according to Lothian and Borders Police, who issued the 'motoring' ASBO to me on 23rd June 2009 whilst I was driving on the A7 in the Scottish Borders.

The reason I know they issued the ASBO because of my location of birth (South Shields) and/or because of my choice of car is that today I finally received a copy of the attending officers PDA 'Electronic' Notebook entry.

It has taken since 25th June and numerous letters to Lothian and Borders Police Vehicle Recovery Section (no response), Chief Constable David Strang (no direct reponse to any of the 4 letters sent), and a visit from a local Police Inspector (unannounced and I was out) to get a final definitive reply from LBP 'Information Unit' (a misnomer if ever there was one).

That definitive reply according to the notes contained in the officers PDA is that I was issued with an ASBO because I had given my Name, Address, Place and Date of Birth, and I was driving a Volvo. - That was the full recorded account of the 'incident' which lead to my become a fully-fledged hoodie-wearing waste of space.

Doesn't it make you feel safe in your beds that Lothian and Borders Police are doing their best to keep all Geordie Volvo drivers in check?

Needless to say for the duration of the ASBO (12 months) I will be changing my car to a souped-up Vauxhall Astra with no Tax, Insurance or MOT, will start talking Estuary, and only answer to the name Wayne.
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Thu 10 Sep 2009 09:19
Motoring ASBOs - Dwight Van Driver
Gentlemen

You are referring to an ASBO ?

In the motoring context is this not a first warning under Section 59 Police Reform Act 2002 which deals with vehicles used for causing harassement etc?

(1) Where a constable in uniform has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle is being used on any occasion in a manner which?

(a) contravenes section 3 or 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) (careless and inconsiderate driving and prohibition of off-road driving), and

(b) is causing, or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public,

and can either warn - a second warning in a year means he can seize the vehicle.

dvd
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Thu 10 Sep 2009 09:22
Motoring ASBOs - Pugugly
Not sure whether it applies in Scotland or whether they have their own version
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Thu 10 Sep 2009 09:05
Motoring ASBOs - Pugugly
Please note that the original posting is nearly 2.5 years old.
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