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No market whatsoever for this vehicle in the UK. £1300 will get you a used car which is surely much better. If it cost £3000 in the UK market, you have yet more scope.
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Let's face it if Red Robbo had managed to persuade the BL workers to produce cars for a bowl of rice a day and a twentieth share in a sacred cow, we'd still be making the old Mini!
There are some things to be grateful for! ;-)
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And if BL had built a Factory somewhere in rural Britain turfing the rightful owners off their land without due process, I would "hate" them as well. Don't mistake morality and an ethical stance as some implied racism.
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 06/01/2008 at 21:33
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Yawn.
Even if you have to do a bit of rebuilding, it sounds like a bargain to me. 3 cylinder is it?
I can't wait to get my hands on one. Power at last, and brand spanking new!
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And if BL had built a Factory somewhere in rural Britain turfing the rightful owners off their land without due process I would "hate" them as well. Don't mistake morality and an ethical stance as some implied racism
PU, I agree with your point.
In actuality, the locals are welcoming this project as it brings jobs, employment etc. The protests have been politically motivated by a political rabble rouser. The government invited them to sit down and discuss the points of concern but this lady (the leader) want more political impact so created mayhem on the streets. If there was injustice, the courts would have put a stay order on this.
In a similar case in West Bengal, the goverment were developing a special Economic Zone with an indonesian congolomerate however the terms were later found to unfair to the locals so the government have shelved it
Unfortunatly the press fall for this. BTW, I do not work for or drive a Tata and live 3000 miles from West Bengal. I just feel that a lot of news is misreported creating a different impression. .
Edited by ajit on 07/01/2008 at 04:05
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It was reported here that one of the aims of Tata in producing this vehicle was to make it cheap enough to persuade families to buy one instead of all riding the family motorcycle. From what I saw in Indonesia where Dad, Mum, and 3 kids were on motor cycles / scooters, this is a laudable aim.
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"a laudable aim"
Agreed. We might be sniffy about the safety standards of the car, but it's all relative! I don't know what the casualty rate on Indian roads is, but I have a feeling I'd rather not be told...
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Indian driving. There does seem to be some method to the madness: youtube.com/watch?v=HgB7Y5SFLow
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That's quite impressive, if a little worrying! Moving the population from bikes to cars is going to jam things up a bit (see the similar YouTube offerings for Hanoi) but should at least reduce the casualties...
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I don't really give a stuff who owns 'Jaguar' - it's no more than a brand name now isn't it?
And I'm not racist because I am sad that what used to be a great company could now be owned by a firm from the Far East with no background at all in the sort of market that Jaguar once dominated.
Companies from developing countries with money in their pockets to buy respected names from the old world should remember that they may have learned a lot about how to make cars, but they may still not know a great deal about what makes people buy them.
There's a steep learning curve ahead.
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Tata WILL cheapen Jaguar and it will rapidly disapear down hill.
(A) Buyer perception in this market is very key. Its all very snobby, golf club cachet badge of honour. Jaguar being an "indian maker of £1500 peasant cars" will kill its (already damaged by being "ford") image.
(B) Now the premium price bracket is killed by (A) above, where does tata develop new cars from? engines? electrics? TATA has no heritag/manufacture/ parts bin for Hi Qinteriors, design, big engines, luxury interior items. With no large mark up because of (A) above you cant afford to buy these in without making it cheaper elsewhere.
Jaguar is DEAD. why do you think Ford got shot? Its not racism but simply marketing and economics.
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Jaguar is white elephant - so it has to be dead soon!
Interesting how Tata's cheap car thread is turning into Jaguar takeover.
Probably their aim is already fulfilled by now ;) Just like the Audi R8 ad.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win.
-- Mahatma Gandhi is widely quoted as having said the above, one of his many addresses to the Indian public during the non violent freedom fight of India against the British
History repeats!
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>>Companies from developing countries with money in their pockets to buy respected names from the old world should remember that they may have learned a lot about how to make cars but they may still not know a great deal about what makes people buy them. There's a steep learning curve ahead.
This is a fair comment - most analysts are pretty cynical about Tata's ability to sustain the brand. However, chances are that Ford will retain a stake and Tata will employ a professional with relevant experience to run the show. Again, Ford who have experience could not make headway, saying that a pair of eyes might do something different. Three years ago, Fiat was written off, now they are back
Tata WILL cheapen Jaguar and it will rapidly disapear down hill. (A) Buyer perception in this market is very key. Its all very snobby golf club cachet badge of honour. Jaguar being an "indian maker of £1500 peasant cars" will kill its (already damaged by being "ford") image.
Did the Beetle manufacturer cheapen Bentley, Bugatti and Lamboghini?
The blessing is that Tata's products are so different, there is hardly anything that could be shared, tarnishing Jag's name. Professional brand management will be key
(B) Now the premium price bracket is killed by (A) above where does tata develop new cars from? engines? electrics? TATA has no heritag/manufacture/ parts bin for Hi Qinteriors design big engines luxury interior items. With no large mark up because of (A) above you cant afford to buy these in without making it cheaper elsewhere.
A valid point - tata have strong alliances with Fiat and the next generation of Tata have JTD engines. Perhaps, the boys in Modena might have a hand in developing things as a source of extra income. Remeber, Jaguar has a pretty substantial design centre. Tata have pretty good prototyping faciltieis which could execute under JLR supervision
Opening ones mind and a lot of ideas come up.
Now, we were discussing the peoples car, not the jag takeover
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Another Indian manufacturer Bajaj, is going to launch a similarly priced car, prototype picture looks good.
tinyurl.com/2mudhf
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Google the name Tapasi Malik. I wonder what she'd think of her contribution to the Indian economy.
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It is laudable that Pugugly shows so much concern for the poor people of India, who are allegedly being badly treated by their local communist state. The same is true of the peoples of China who are forced out of their homes by the communist regime there - all in their "national" interest.
I am concerned about the plight of people in this country. This was a question asked today in Parliament:
www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmtoday/cmdeb...1
Q12. [175863] Mr. John Randall (Uxbridge) (Con): Does the Prime Minister agree that the forcible removal of people from their homes, such as happened during the highland clearances, has no place in the 21st century? If so, why are he and his Government doing exactly that to hundreds of people around Heathrow?
The Prime Minister: A consultation is taking place at the moment. I understand that it goes through to the end of February. The proposal is for a third passenger runway at Heathrow. I believe that many people think that that is in the national interest ....
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I totally agree with you. That's the world we live in. But what do you do accept the Status Quo or do something about it ?
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As I said in a previous reply, my friend lives near Heathrow. He and many others have tried to change their dire local "planning enforcement" situation without success and are are wits end as to what is happening in what used to be their old lovely "Middlesex".
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=58848&...e
"To see how things are getting from bad to worse, below is where my friend lives. There are virtually no front gardens left, and the rears all have a massive detached "garden building" which is built without planning permission, and is usually used to accommodate 2 or 3 beds for tenants from the East European countries.
maps.live.com/?v=2&sp=Point.skbhfggz24tm_overdevel...1 click "overdevelopment",
then select street view, then from the top of the map box, click on "birds eye view". You can then zoom in even further and view in 3-D from E W N or S directions.
This is spreading all over London and the South East. In most parts of the Home Counties, many detached homes are being demolished en-block and replaced with rows and rows of three or four storey flats or terraced town-houses. All this without increasing road space or drainage or other services."
Edited by jbif on 09/01/2008 at 17:25
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The car, named Nano, is officially out now! Pictures here:
tinyurl.com/2v7gwb
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The basic version with black bumpers - front end looks like the back end of a Ford Ka, if you ask me! Could get confusing if they ever brought it over here, not that this will happen.
Wonder what the actual CO2 figures are, they're very cagey it seems about giving the numbers.
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The car is targeted to millions of two wheeler owners in India who like to upgrade to a four wheeler.
The safety features like ABS/airbags, CO2 etc. are grossly irrelevant in this case.
Top speed is supposed to be 90 km/h.
You can't judge its performance on European perspective, it is not meant to be here!
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If you've managed to produce a car to sell for 1300 quid, why do you need a 'luxury' version with alloy wheels?
Actually, as I typed, I realised there is an answer to that question. In France you see those confounded plastic 'sans permis' lawnmower-engined abominations from the likes of Aixam and Ligier dressed up with alloys and sunroofs.
Anyway, let's congratulate Tata on a triumph of design and production engineering - and hope they soon find someone in the marketing department to give it a proper name...
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Whilst it's cheap in Western terms the selling price is about an average annual Indian wage -so I imagine very few Indians will be able to afford one.
How many British buy a car for our average wage - £23,000ish?
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tinyurl.com/yposlx
no nearside mirror--------that should go down well on India's crowded streets
Moved over from a standalone post - very long link shrunk so it fits the screen.
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 10/01/2008 at 13:54
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i bet it hasnt got a heater either unless you include the hair dryer at the back turning the wheels , but i wouldnt turn my nose up at one , you would never need to visit an MOT station ever again , after three years you would just get a new one, bring it on
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I think my 1971 VW beetle had a bit more power at 45BHP, this Tata is on 33BHP which is also not a lot. The maker said it supose to be a scooter replacement kind of motoring and as far as I remember this X33 times better than some of the scooters on the sub continent.
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Sorry HJ but comments like this make my blood boil -
"But it's a fantastic achievement to actually build a 4 seater car that can be sold for less than £1,300. This has so far defeated all Euro car makers due to crash safety and emissions regs, as well as a lack of willingness due to the lack of unit profit. Look for more news on Thursday 10th when the car is officially unveiled. many thaks for this, Nsar"
Maybe thats why european car making, like so many other industries cannot compete with third world countries, lack of any kind of regulations! Maybe, just ,maybe ifthere was a level playing field then we may just be able to compete, until then, everyone carries on to sing the praises of developments like this. Why is it such a fantatsic development when it doesnt even comply with european safey standards? HJ are you saying that European standards are way to strict??
Best Regards
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Why is it such a fantatsic development when it doesnt even comply with european safey standards?
No one prevents European brands to go and develop a similar car in India.
Nearly 30 years back, Suzuki opened a plant in India (under name of Maruti Udyog Ltd) which changed the Indian motoring landscape. Suzuki is still #1 car maker in India. Then 10 years or so ago, Hyundai did the same and became a very successful manufacturer in India.
Where as Opel completely failed in Indian market, in spite of entering at the same time with Hyundai. All European/American cars are struggling in Indian market.
The main problem with American & European brands are that they never tried to really understand the market and consumer psychology in developing worlds. But the Japs and Koreans did.
Of course, being an Indian company, Tata might get some undue advantage - but I believe if some other manufactures can compete with them, it is Japs/Korean not European/Americans!
Edited by movilogo on 10/01/2008 at 15:30
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