As you may have seen in the HJ Classifieds, I'm selling my late father's Ford Fusion.
I've had an offer, for the full asking price from someone who hasn't seen the car and they want to pay cash.
I've stipulated that we'll need to go to the bank together to pay it in, but I'm a concerned.
Should I be?
Any advice would be gratefully received.
Edited by Chips with everything on 15/11/2008 at 10:15
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Nelsons, in bank, where you can immediately bank them in an accout, is by far the safest way to accept payment, along with Moneygram and Western Union, but without the cost of the last two.
But beware of a cash buyer who starts beating the price down when he finally comes to see the car.
And have someone big with you when he arrives. If he comes mob handed, don't even open the door.
HJ
Edited by Honestjohn on 16/11/2008 at 07:52
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The guy is coming from Ireland, where I'm led to believe that like for like, cars are a lot more expensive - are they really?
As you say, there's no substitute for (genuine) "Nelsons", however he'll be here after the banks shut. Perhaps intentionally?
I've spoken to him and asked for a Bankers Draft instead, the details of which I'll be able to check and verify with the issuing bank when he phones later next week. Just hope he does.
He has also agreed to bring some an insurance certificate as proof of cover and a form of ID. I don't know how much practical use this will be though.
If he subsequently renegades on offering the full asking price, then the deal is off - no question, but I'm wary of him bringing any "persuasion" with him.
I feel incredibly uneasy about the whole thing, but everyone around me says otherwise.
Should I make some excuses and encourage him not to visit?
Once again, thanks to all.
Edited by Chips with everything on 15/11/2008 at 19:08
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If he uses cash - get a counterfeit currency detector pen.
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The S Irish use the Euro and the fall of the pound against the Euro would make buying a car (or any other goods) in sterling more attractive, for sure, for sure.
I'd still be very cautious. A little Google throws up some possibilities- this one is worth a read (but we never know whether it was a scam or not) answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=2008010505141...p
Or this one, warning about scams, www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=93518&highl...m. Note that one poster has written "other one to watch out for is someone offering you a bank draft, they may even turn up and take the car for a test drive but the draft turns out to be fraudulent
if in doubt, ask the person to go to the local bank branch to check the validity of the draft
I work in a payments processesing centre, guarantee we'll bounce a couple of fraudulent drafts/cheques for these scams every day!
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Chips
Sorry to say it; but this now smells just a bit too fishy.
Is this draft drawn on a UK bank - and if presented out-of-hours, then you can't even check that there was a genuine one issued? [Even though the one you'll likely get will be a copy...]
"Coming from Ireland" - or an Irish traveller over here, well clued-up on all their usual dirty tricks... Irish phone number - or a mobile?
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... and if he brings a draft for YOUR asking price, PLUS an extra 1000 quid, and can you pay the balance to him in cash....
walk away, rene!
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I feel incredibly uneasy about the whole thing but everyone around me says otherwise. Should I make some excuses and encourage him not to visit?
DO NOT CONTINUE WITH THIS TRANSACTION!!
Trust me on this one, when he calls again say the car is no longer for sale.
It will sell to someone local sooner or later for a fair amount.
CBG
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I once sold a car where the buyer wanted to pay cash. It was after banks would have been closed so I asked if they would do a banker's draft thinking it guaranteed. I later found they can be cancelled - it wasn't though.
I also had a few more nervous days when I'd sold it because the draft was from RBS so being a Scottish bank took a day or two longer.
All was fine in the end. If I did this again I'd insist cash paid into my account before I handover a car.
It sounds a little fishy and probably isn't... but I'm not sure I'd take the risk and the buyer for my Fiesta in 1996 was local(ish).
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I sold a friend's bike on e-bay (he knew but was otherwise engaged abroad !) guy from Scotland came to collect on a Sunday paid cash in Scottish notes - that was scary.
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I'm a little concerned that some of the advice here comes from ppl who seem to be unaware of the market conditions for an Irish car-buyer, and I think that this has an important bearing on how you see this buyer.
The guy is coming from Ireland where I'm led to believe that like for like cars are a lot more expensive - are they really?
Yes, new cars in Ireland are a higher price than the UK but usually lower spec.
That's largely because of the Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT), which is payable when a car is first registered in Ireland. When importing a used car, the importer pays a reduced VRT on a sliding scale, which is roughly 10% discount for each year of age, so a 4-year old car gets a 40% discount. (My figures may be out of date, but that's the gist of it).
In Ireland, there aren't so many company cars, and it's the mass disposal of these cars after three years that drives down the secondhand price in the UK, especially because many of them were bought new at a big discount. Irish secondhand cars hold more of their new value, because private buyers don't usually flog their cars after 3 years, and the market isn't flooded by the fleets
So the result is that an Irish buyer will find a s/h car much cheaper in the UK, even more so now that the Euro is doing so well against sterling. If they but an older car, they get a decent saving on the VRT, so it becomes less of a hurdle ... and this means that a UK s/h car which has aged in years but not miles can be a v good buy for an Irish motorist.
It seems to me that your late father's car is likely to be in the several-years-old-but-low-mileage category, which would make it very attractive to an Irish buyer. If he's coming all that way, he's not going to find it easy to shop around, so the sensible thing for him is not to haggle on price, and just secure the deal and get back home in his new wheels. If he doesn't do a deal with you, he may end up with an expensive wasted trip.
There may be other reasons to be suspicious of your purchaser, but if you look at things from the perspective of an Irish importer, a lot of what he says makes sense to me.
Hope this helps.
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You might also feel safer if it were a (regular) member of this forum. Is he?
But, on the whole, be suspicious!
Edited by smokie on 15/11/2008 at 11:27
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This is one them questions when the quest to sell a car eludes common sense. Why would somebody offer full asking price for a car they haven't even seen? It could be a CAT C write off with miss matching wings for they know!
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They could have done the usual checks and it may be a new car that is still under warranty and has been priced correctly... I sold my old one that way and got within £100 of the aksing price from a guy who paid me the money by bank transfer and then came to collect it without seeing it! I know that there are some horror stories, but there are still plenty of honest buyers and sellers around, Rattle!
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Funnily enough I sold a car in August, 'unseen' to a cash buyer.
Advertised it on Pistonheads and he really wanted it. Paid me a £50 deposit via PayPal and came to pay and collect about a week later. Paid the asking price (£2800) with no attempt to haggle.
He travelled about 170 miles to collect and only made a cursory inspection - I was stunned! Very pleasant young guy who went away happy.
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I am always surprised at the big difference in car prices between given areas. Where I live the prices of cars are still ridiculous but go 40 miles up the road and there are substantial reductions. Even a friend who works in a car dealership opted a few weeks ago to travel 40 miles to buy his car rather than in our home town.
Maybe these chaps offering the cash and travelling the distances are coming from places where similar make and model are far more? Perhaps they know they can make a quick profit by putting it for sale in their home town?
My main concern about a cash buyer is whether the cash is genuine or fake.
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I once advertised a car in Autotrader back in the pre-online days. I was inundated with phone calls from about 6am onwards from people who wanted to immediately buy it over the phone. This surprised me, as the asking price was relatively high.
The penny dropped when one of the callers offered me above the asking price. Instead of 9295 quid, Autotrader had swapped the first 2 digits around and the advert appeared with an asking price of 2995. I asked one of the callers whether he didn't find it suspicious that the price was so low. "No", he said, "I thought it was a write-off repair or cut and shut or something. I was just going to buy it and sell it on". Fine example of integrity in the motor trade.
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I have twice sold cars for cash at full asking price.
In both cases the buyers had cash from insurance claims so did not haggle.
I understand some people find haggling difficult , demeaning or are just not very clued up..
Can't understand it myself..
But in neither case are we talking £000s only £00s...
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Banker's Drafts can be forged - with such a convincing forgery that it will initially fool the Banks.
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Banker's Drafts can be forged - with such a convincing forgery that it will initially fool the Banks.
... and likewise Eirin Euros and N Ireland banknotes are pretty unfamiliar to most mainland folk, and therefore you wouldn't know a snide one if it bit you on the bum.
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In our shops we used detector pens but the local police advised that the latest scam on the run up to xmas is spraying the notes with hairspray as this apparently won't show up a forgery with a pen.
Back to the UV lights again..
Going back to OP, if I was you I would accept everything the buyer is saying but insist that it happens daytime when your bank is open. If he turns up outwith these hours, for whatever reason, there is no deal.
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Thanks to all for the replies - it looks like I have cause for concern.
To clarify though, the car is a 2007 (57) 1.4 TDCI Fusion Zetec (Climate) with less than 4,000 miles - so I'm not sure how attractive that would be given NowWheels post (thanks!).
Wise words about doing the transaction during opening hours.
Just a thought though, would an online banking transaction using BACS be suitable? My only concern there would be of any potential fraud in the future as he would then have my bank details and address.
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All bank transfers apart from Western Union and Moneygram (which are effectively cash) can later be rescinded by a loophole in money laundering regulations, and this could happen weeks after you throught the money was "safe".
HJ
Edited by Honestjohn on 16/11/2008 at 07:54
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either cash, at the bank or printed building society cheque and you see his savings book showing the withdrawal.
else no deal. you will sell this car soon enough
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Why can't he just do a direct transfer from his bank to yours - might take a few days but unlike WU if its from one bank to another I don't think it can be reversed.
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Whenever I hear 'Western Union' I automatically think of African scam artists.
Thing to remember is that there are more decent people out there than crooks. Meet during the day and take the cash to the bank. Get the buyer to pay it directly into your account.
Edited by midlifecrisis on 16/11/2008 at 09:43
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the dodgy bit here is - he can't come during banking hours. 'Course he can! He's going to drive the car back isn't he? The only way this can go down safely is MEET in the bank so the money is never "on the street".
Amused to see a comment on Irish travellers up there that got past the censors!
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forgot to say - I've done a few gigs in Dublin lately and even before sterling took a dive I was horrified at the prices - a lot of stuff in the shops was double UK price. I did notice very high car prices too.
I also noted from the papers that Irish politicians make ours look like saints!
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Thanks again all.
One more quick question though. If we do meet during the day and pay the bankers draft directly into my bank account, can it then be subsequently canceled before it clears?
I'll will call him and state meeting during banking hours is part of the condition of sale though.
Thanks again everyone.
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Bankers drafts can be rescinded after they have cleared. Strange, but unfortunately true, as many vendors have discovered.
HJ
Edited by Honestjohn on 16/11/2008 at 10:18
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I'll will call him and state meeting during banking hours is part of the condition of sale though.
My guess is he will agree to meeting during banking hours then will be held up and arrive at 17.30, hassle and hurang you into accepting whatever payment method he prefers to use, there will be lots of gesticulating and personal space infringement, he will have a friend with him, will talk very quickly.
Pull out now!
CBG
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one thing's for sure - we all need closure on this story!
I can't figure out the rhyming slang of Nelsons!!
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Nelson Mandella - Pint of Stella. According to a true cockney I know.
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CBG - You should know with an alias like that !
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There was me wondering when we had ever had a picture of Admiral Lord Nelson on our banknotes! Idiot!
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Nelson Eddies - readies. He was a crooner in the forties or fifties.
Cheers
Steve
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Ha ha - neither could I.
My best effort was Nelsons Boats - notes!
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Or I could be completely wrong, but I doubt it.
Edited by corblimeyguvnar on 16/11/2008 at 10:36
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yes nelson eddys!! I googled it... right that's it, got to scrub kitchen floor & hoover lounge arf arf
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"got to scrub kitchen floor & hoover lounge arf arf"
What's that mean then ?
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You don't have too worry too much - just take sensible precautions.
Don't handle any cash yourself, explain your address isn't on the V5 because of the proxy sale & insist (as a sale condition) the transaction takes place at your bank where bona fides can be established.
Prime your bank that you're making a large-ish cash deposit from the sale of goods. If they're keen for cash - as most banks will be during the CC - they'll make a room + cashier available for this.
If the buyer is genuine, he'll not mind meeting in your bank - presumably he'll have made his own checks, e.g. HPI, supplying dealer SH etc. The fact you're meeting in your bank also gives him confidence you're genuine - let's not forget it's a two way transaction - he may also have the wobbles about this.
The bank confirms your bona fides by its mere participation & verifies cash deposits there & then - your purchaser can see monies paid to your account & you can hand over the purchasing documentation simultaneously. I would make the receipt & V5 change in the bank. The bank in this way is legal witness & can be called on in the event of dispute, they'll be very keen to verify the cash is genuine & will be bound to verify your purchasers' presence & transaction details.
The important thing is to inform your bank (and ask for the facility) in good time - they're more used to this sort of thing than you might imagine. I carried out a purchase of a car using the 'good offices' of my business bank - it made the whole thing very safe & controlled.
Edited by woodbines on 16/11/2008 at 10:51
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Thanks again all.
Excellent advice WB, I hadn't considered the 'legal witness' aspect that the Bank's involvement would add.
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Nelson, Lord - one in the eye?
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very good gentlemen. Don't forget we need the end to this tale! and to the OP - don't forget, NELSONS only!! (in the bank)
good luck
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Just a quick update, the 'Cash Buyer' never showed.
Once again, thanks to all for the advice.
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Thats a nuisance! Better than him turning up with a balaclava, baseball bat and pepperspray but not the result you were hoping for! Perhaps he didn't turn up becuase he couldn't meet you at home and the meet at a bank business was not what he was looking for? Still we have all profited from the comments on how to approach a cash buyer.
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Put it back in the classified section on this site. You may get a bite from someone who at least has a track record.
I cannot recall the details, but thought it was a little overpriced.
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Thanks will do. I wasn't 100% sure of the Classifieds rules to be honest and was under the impression that it was for 1 week only.
In the current climate, it probably is overpriced - although I've used the CAP clean price and taken a bit off.
The timing of the sale isn't the best, so I'm not sure whether to leave it until next year or go for broke with a more realistic price. The latter sounds the better of the two, I think.
Many thanks again to all, your advice has been invaluable.
Thank you.
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