The new Megane, particularly in 3-door guise, is a good looking car IMO. For some reason it looks awful in photos but works much better in the metal.
Renault have the face the fact though that the apalling quality and very variable dealership experience of many of their 2000-2005 cars has come back to haunt them and meant many previous owners simply dismiss any new Renault out of hand.
They have no one to blame but themselves.
Edited by pd on 23/11/2008 at 12:52
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We took a gamble on a still-under-warranty 54 plate Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi back in early 2007. We've since taken it from 36,000 miles to 61,000 miles, including a jaunt round Europe earlier this year, and can report nothing other than a reliable, dependable, safe, comfy and smooth family car. Sure, it doesn't have an unblemished reliability record, but no horror stories either, very little expense, and it has never let us down.
Faults have been limited to a window regulator failure just out of warranty which Renault UK paid for, and a split wastegate pipe which rendered it painfully gutless, but still driveable. Oh and a couple of failed glowplugs which has been the story with every diesel I've owned without exception. Other than that, just servicing and tyres. It's driven hard, knocked about as family cars tend to be, and gets no special treatment apart from an interim (9k) oil and filter change using a good synthetic oil.
Really can't say much more. The interior creaks a bit, and there's some wear and tear here and there, but it's still more than presentable. Ride, noise levels and long distance comfort are simply superb, and the engine makes many other diesels seem horribly rumbly and harsh. Put it this way, when we needed to do 2200 miles in a week round Europe with two under 4s in tow, I didn't worry at all about taking it, and neither did I need to.
I feel sorry for people who have grief with Renaults, but I would recommend one to anyone based on my experience.
Edited by DP on 23/11/2008 at 15:47
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Fair enoughski DP - It sounds like yours is pretty good. The difference for me is that the three Mondeo diesel estates I have had in row have jointly covered over 250k miles. Nothing, and I really mean nothing at all, has ever gone wrong with any of them. I call that reliability. Conversely, the Espace I had for two years was off the road for extended periods of time on a number of occasions. I just couldn't be bothered to risk that again. Cost me a fortune in lost business as well.
Anyway, I genuinely hope Renault have got their act together now. The automotive world would be a less interesting place without them.
Afraid they'll have to do without me but I suspect they can live with that.....
;-)
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I've not seen the UK ad, but I don't get it with Renaults. The previous Laguna persuaded me that modern cars can be made to ride well and that diesel engines can be quiet, but then Renault messed up the styling with the present model. The latest Megane also rides well, but I don't like the interior, the seats or the complete lack of rear visibility.
To be honest, if I was buying a new car, I would have to go a very long way down the list of hopefuls before thinking "I know, I'll buy a Renault". There are just too many alternatives out there. Now if someone were to offer me a 16TX on the other hand...
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Ever since Nicole vanished, Renault adverts have lost their allure.
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Very pricey though - new Megane.
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Oh, not this tired old libel again. Live and drive in France as I have done -- you do not see the roads blocked by abandoned Renaults. Funny how the French seem to live with them, often keeping a Renault or Citroen for 15 years in a salt-free climate.
I passed my test some fifty years ago, was driving before many on here where born, and have had a wide variety of vehicles in that time. It doesn't make me any more clever, but it does mean that I'm old enough to recall when 'Jap Carp' was a term of derision for the products of Honda or Toyota. A generation later, we have the same auto-racism about French cars. Who's next? South Korea?
I have just disposed of my 2 litre Renault Mégane RXE automatic. I'd owned it for over ten years, during which it covered over 90,000 miles and, apart from the usual service consumables has needed one wheel bearing and one ignition coil in that time. It has never let me down.
Every year it has spent a month in France, covering about 2,000-2.500 miles in the country each trip. Last month, at ten years old, it went from Normandy to near the German border, down through the Vosges and Jura mountains, into Switzerland, round Lake Geneva and back into France, the length of the Alps along the high roads, (La Grande Route des Alpes), to Provence and back home via Normandy again. The coolant level never varied, and it used half a litre of oil. When I disposed of it last week (for another Renault) it still had the original exhaust system and rear brake linings.
This performance has nothing to do with its country of origin. It arises because I have meticulously changed all fluids -- without exception -- when they became due and have serviced it on the dot to maker's spec.
And yes, I know this post is about Renault advertising, though it has drifted away somewhat. But who in their right mind gives a stuff for the advertising when they buy a car -- or anything else?
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And yes I know this post is about Renault advertising though it has drifted away somewhat. But who in their right mind gives a stuff for the advertising when they buy a car -- or anything else?
Of course the average punter gives a stuff -- how do you think Renault achieved their position from the doldrums of the late 1980s in the first place?
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Bottom three in the Which? Car Customer satisfaction survey is no libel but fact. I can't see we can judge Renaults supposed improvement in reliability 'til we see cars at 5,6,7 years old.
"Til then I'm fed up with being Renaults test bed. If you're wise don't buy a Renault.
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Ever since Nicole vanished Renault adverts have lost their allure.
Not to me. I really liked the Megane one with the bottoms, very clever reference to the Megane's own jolly French rump and a nice musical riff too.
For some reason it caused widespread apoplexy here, as did the design of the car. What a bunch of - how can I put this politely? - boredom-inducing elderly explosions of flatulence from the colon....
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The original message is about the ad not the cars and I think the header is absolutely spot on! I know nothing about Renaults and certainly can't be accused of prejudice. But since the Renault 4 disappeared no single reason for buying one has ever occurred to me. Isn't that what ads should be about - the USP?
Thankyou -- exactly my point.
If you have an issue with image, the last thing you want to do is draw attention to it, unless you're prepared to meet it head-on. This advert does nothing to address that, only the fact that a problem exists.
The new Megane may well be the finest, best-engineered car ever built for all I know -- but this ad still wouldn't help it.
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I had exactly the same thought the first time I saw the Koleos advert.
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The French haven't exactly been silent on the subject of recent Renault reliablility. The exploding engine/turbo issues of the dci engines between 2000-2003 was a big issue with the French government involved in trying to broker a deal between Renault and very unhappy owners.
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I have no axe to grind with Renault, I bought a 55 plate Megane thinking that any car will have problems - its just luck of the draw.
It did have a few problems and thats what put me off ever buying a Renault again, not the fact the problems occurred (thats the same with any modern car), but the shoddy uncaring way the Renault dealer dealt with me.
So perhaps Renault should be targetting their dealers reliability as much as the cars?
Edited by Snakey on 24/11/2008 at 12:58
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Indeed, when getting quotes my experience was shocking. I mean nearly £450 for a flipping cambelt replacement on a 1.2 engine! An engine rebuilt probably wouldn't cost much more than that at a good indie.
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You cannot change from rubbish to quality overnight.
It takes many years design, specification, assembly and a culture change. You can buy improved quality in
BUT
"French culture" would not change overnight
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I ran a Renault 12 from 90,000 to 260,000 miles (and converting it to Gordini spec from secondhand Renault 17TS bits) and also a 15TS whilst helping friends maintain various Renault 4/5 and Fuego. With one or two notable exceptions my dealings with various Renault garages parts department did not inspire any confidence in the dealer network.
I found these cars to be very tough and reliable. I have not owned a Renault since because there seemed little point in buying a Gallic facsimile of someone elses mechanical design template (from the Renault 9/11 on).
From what I read it is the parts that Renault buy in from suppliers that cause most of the reliability issues and they obviously buy in far more than they used to. VAG and others have had problems with suppliers inte recent past and I woud suggest that Renault need to take similar steps to improve the performance of their supplier base
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It's not just the parts though is it? The way the dCi engines eat themselves is more design fault than bad parts, IMO.
Having examined my own Megane very closely before selling it as fast as I could, the whole design of the car was flawed in a way that went beyond mere bad parts, e.g.:
- Wipers rubbed along edge of bonnet when raised to replace blades or wash screen
- Trim on inside of boot fell off (and couldn't be refixed quite right) when I pulled the handle to shut it
- Speaker covers would not stay on without rattling
- Gear stick had much longer throw in odd gears than in even gears and gear stick vibrated horribly under load
- Cabin noise at 3000 rpm (2.0 petrol) in top gear (70mph) was unbearable. Fine at 2500 or 3500, so could drive slowly OK or break the limit on the motorway, anything else was aural torture.
etc, etc.
In all 16 of the cars I've owned over the last 12 years, none of them (old or new) had any design flaws quite like those, and that's not even mentioning all the several actual faults I experienced in a mere 3 weeks of ownership...
Edited by TheOilBurner on 24/11/2008 at 17:31
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The well-publicised problems with the 1.9dCi F9Q engine were resolved in June 2003 by the fitting of upgraded oil feed pipes to the turbo, ECU setting changes and a stronger intercooler. Owners of these engines should continue to change the oil at 9000 miles and use only the best fully synthetic oils.
My family has run Renaults for many years but I believe it?s right to criticise companies when they get things wrong, for it is through feedback that companies can improve their products.
There has certainly been evidence of a drop-off in Renault quality around the turn of the century. Renault?s dark period was from about 1999 to 2004 when quality control appeared poor on some models. Particular areas of weakness included automatic transmissions and the early Laguna 2?s and Megane 2?s. Even Renault has described the Laguna?s career as ?a difficult period in terms of quality?. (Timesonline)
But lessons were learned quickly and if you look at the reliability ratings for the later versions of those cars (on ADAC for example) then the cars are doing much better. Laguna was substantially revised in 2005, Scenic 2006. Best to look for those upgraded models if considering one. Still some work to do but a clear move in the right direction.
However if it?s fair to criticise then it?s only fair that credit should be given when things improve. Ghosn?s influence on the cars has been significant. If you look at the models designed and built under his leadership then they are all doing much better. The Modus is doing some good work at turning Renault's patchy record around. First of the 'Ghosn' Renaults after some considerable backside kicking within the company. Clio is the second model, Sept 07 Laguna the third. Megane fourth.
....." the Modus has at last broken the spell on Renault's poor reliability, with a performance in its first two years that even some Far-Eastern carmakers might envy." (Which? 2006/07)
ADAC 2006 ranked the Modus in the top-three most reliable small cars on the market throughout its production life. ADAC remarked on the progress made with Renault vehicles built in 2005 and 2006, with Scenic finishing first in the compact MPV segment. Almost all Renault cars produced between 2004 and 2006 received the ?reliable? classification and the corresponding green colour code. Renault's strong performance as highlighted in the ADAC report and is attributable to quality offensive started in 2003.
I know a bloke who runs an independent Renault service centre - typically his trade is he sees very few Renaults less than three years old as most people seem to keep them serviced at the main dealers while the warranty is running. He then gets them for service and repair after the warranty expires. He operates from a business unit hence his labour charges are attractive compared to a main dealer. He's beginning to get the earliest Moduses and Clio 3's in now and rates them highly. In fact he reckons that Renaults built from about 2004/05 onwards are in a different league. When I spoke to him a few months back he couldn?t remember the last time he fitted a new turbo to a 1.9dCi either, so it looks like the modifications introduced in June 2003 to that engine have been successful.
To summarise:
Before 1999 generally sound, some problems with automatic transmissions
1999 - 2004 some drop-off in quality.
2004 ? tide begins to turn.
So if you want a Renault and budget allows, go for as new as possible.
Me? I?m looking at the Laguna Coupe. But why don?t they dust off some of their sporting names from the past? Gordini? Alpine?
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Absolutely right, Xileno - that's the unbiased truth of the matter as I understand it. My 7 Renaults (1980-2001, last one new in '98) were all fine, but the ensuing problems meant that resale values plummeted.
Some (not all) of the problems are with the under-developed electronic gizmos which I suspect the French don't specify and the British do - hence the more positive French view of their cars' reliability. This probably applies to Peugeot too: I won't say Citroen too as there are a lot of Citroen owners in the Backroom and and most if not all seem to be happy with theirs.
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I hope you're right Xileno. My ranting my come across as anti-Renault, but I'm not. I'm very much a Francophile. I love the country and have fond memories of my old BX, despite all the inevitable things that went wrong, but it _was_ old and high mileage. The fundamental design was sound on the BX though.
I really want to like Renaults and if they can lay the ghosts of the past that would be great, the more fine cars we have to choose from on the market as a whole, the better.
Hopefully, instead of moans and rants like mine, in 2-3 years time we'll have no end of people expressing their admiration for the latest Laguna and Megane. If that happens, then I'll be first in the queue to buy mine, although I'm still not that fond of the dealers mind...
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I know four people who all bought a Renault Espace around the same time ...all have been dreadfully unreliable.
My latest experience is I have a 4.5 yr old Espace 2.2dci 65000 miles which has been diagnosed with a split inlet manifold...needless to say Renault Customer Services couldn?t care less despite this obviously being a manufacturing fault.
Have you experienced such problems and do you know what would cause such problems?
Renault fill the bottom three places (out of 90,000 Models apparently) in the Which? Car Customer Satisfaction Survey - The Espace coming last - when are Renault going to do anything to make sure that customers buy another Renault? I am going to change my car...guess what I?ll NEVER buy another Renault.
Renault deserve to be bashed and hard...great concept cars, unreliable and not fit for the real world.
No wonder they're appealing to people who haven't bought a renault before anyone who has owned a car from new to relatively high mileage say 100,000 miles would never buy another one.
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I cannot really understand all the Renault Bashing here, yes they have their problems but so do all the other manufacturers as well. An example in our company fleet we have a good number of Audi, BMW, VW which are percived as quality marques. Well most of our fleet covers 100,000 miles over three years and we have all of the problems that Renault have. One of our 1 year old A6 is off the road due to turbo problems at 25000 miles not very good for a £30,000 car methinks. My experiance of high mileage Renaults has been very good Mk 1aguna 135,000 miles no real problems, ,1995 Espace 130,000 miles no real problems, current Clio 1.4 100.000 miles just routine servicing so experiance is good.
Today one of my colleagues can into work in the local VW dealers courtesy car, she bought the car in August and this is the fifth time it has broken down and left her stranded on her if only everything in life was as reliable as a VW polo EH !!!!!!!!!!!! She is off to look at a Skoda tomorrow as she has had enough.
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My neighbours daughter had a 1.4 Clio on an 'M' plate. 200k miles when traded in. I remember thrashing an old 18 1650cc up and down from Essex to Lancs weekly, typically at about 100mph. Very comfortable, never missed a beat and I sold at a profit. I think the early Scenics and Lagunas did the damage in terms of build quality and reliability, along with the value drop in some of their larger cars. remember the Safrane??
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Mrnikko - looking at a Skoda doesn't make sense if she's anti VW!!!
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Yes I told her that but its a different badge thats her logic !!!!!!!!!
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I've no axe to grind with Renault cars - I've owned two 19s and an Espace. The first 19 was a bit ropey and finally coughed its last blowing an injector out of the head. Second one though was superb, great to drive, and I did thousands of fault free miles in it before a white van missed a corner and front ended it.
Mechanically the Espace has been superb so far, and is trés comfortable, but the less said about the electrics the better.
Where I do have an axe to grind though is with a local Renault dealer - just going into the dealership and finding someone who might just be prepared to politely take my money in exchange for a spare part is bordering on Mission Impossible. That said though, they do supply the correct part occasionally so perhaps I'm expecting too much? Sorry, but although I like the cars there's no way I'd buy one from this dealer and if they're representative of Renault dealers I can understand some of the comments above.
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I gave up buying French makes over 10 years ago and buy Nissan and Toyota now - although if Renault quality starts to rub off on Nissan that list will get a bit shorter.
My reason: the design quality of French cars was somewhere between good and exceptional; the build quality somewhere between disappointing and appalling.
What ........ off a driver the most? The outdated technology in the gearbox or the unending rattle in the dashboard?
Edited by Pugugly on 02/01/2009 at 20:53
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Ok, from a garage owners point of view: absolutely love French cars, Great to drive, (road test i should say) C.R.a P keep us in constant work.
I think the wiring they use must be made from an old transatlantic cable, the electrical systems are bound to fail.
What do I drive? Not French I'm afraid, I do like the Laguna but I'm afraid to buy one.
Can you imagine the hassle with lost keys, electric handbrake on, steering locked and in park, We get that on a regular basis, still only takes 2 weeks to get keys from France.
Peter
Edited by Pugugly on 02/01/2009 at 23:16
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One of the best cars I ever had was a renautlt 18 1981.....loved it.
Seems things have gone downhill since.
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Frech cars have never been absolute rubbish - just not necessarily always up to the standard of the rest at any particular time (with one or two exceptions)...:-)
Edited by Stuartli on 03/01/2009 at 00:19
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I have had 2 Renault's, a 1997 Clio 1.2 (with the DIET engine) & a 1996 Megane 1.4 (with the ENERGY engine), both were ultra-reliable, comfy and economical, what more do you want? That said, they were both base models with no frills at all so no French electrics to go wrong...
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I am genuinely baffled at some of these comments. Was ours built in a different factory, or is it a time bomb waiting to explode?
Total maintenance expenditure in just under 2 yrs / 30,000 miles, inclusive of scheduled servicing and four replacement tyres is about £750. It's sitting outside covered in frost, and I'm going out in half an hour. Not once will it even occur to me that it won't start, or that it will leave me and my 1yr old daughter stranded at the side of the road.
I drove it yesterday for the first time in weeks, and I am still taken with its sheer effortlessness and the way the engine just doesn't rumble and vibrate like most other four pot diesels when you extend it. A smooth, fairly distant growl that could teach a lot of petrol units a few lessons in decorum.
Different world.
As mentioned before, the only "special" treatment it gets is an oil change midway between the Renault service intervals, because I don't believe in 18,000 mile oil changes particularly on a diesel engine. Does it make a difference? Who knows, but it makes me feel better, and costs nothing in the scheme of things.
The trim's a bit crap and some of the plastics are alarmingly cheap, but then it's not priced to compete with an Audi. That really is where my criticism ends for this kind of money.
Sorry, rant over! :-)
Cheers
DP
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DP time bomb.
In fairness though, aren't most of the cars you see broken?
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In fairness yes, worst Ren followed by peug,citroen and Fiat, German much better, Vw group very expensive parts (getting cheaper) Bmw and merc surprisingly cheap for parts, Jap, hardly see them broken down ( except nissan/ renault collaborations) Ford and vauxhall pretty good too.
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>been diagnosed with a split inlet manifold...needless to say Customer Services >couldn?t care less despite this obviously being a manufacturing fault.
yes exactly the same thing happened to my next door neighbour, at almost the same mileage.
It was a mercedes.
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Renault fill the bottom three places (out of 90,000 Models apparently) in the Which? Car Customer Satisfaction Survey - The Espace coming last -
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(well, it's still Christmas...)
We've been through this many times before: surely it can best be summed up as:
- Up to about 1999 Renaults were fine (all mine were, and my last one weas a 98/R)
- Between then and about 2004 quality took a nose-dive
- Since then things have improved: DP's Scenic is an example
- Renaults (and most European makes) are probably still more vulnerable to abuse and neglect than most Japanese. I don't think the above-mentioned Scenic is unusual, but it's probably been well driven and looked after by its previous owner as well as by DP and Mrs DP.
I'd have another in principle, but until the market recognises the upturn in quality they still depreciate too fast for those of us who like to buy new.
Edited by Avant on 03/01/2009 at 14:35
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What Car annual reliability report, based on Warrenty Direct figures for 1.5 to 9 year old cars - bottom 10 includes one Renault, which was the 97-02 Espace; 3rd from bottom with 71 faults per 100. There are 3 Audis.
Renault aren't in Warranty Direct's reliability index bottom 10 manufacturers:
www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/
(click on 'UK top 10' then 'worst performers' button)
EDIT correct link
Edited by Focus {P} on 03/01/2009 at 14:49
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