Surely the same would go for anyone in the back seat of something small, like C1 or a Picanto. The top of the back seats always look pretty hairly close to the rear screen to me.
So long as I've got children to ferry around, I'll be driving an estate car, or a Mondeo sized saloon/hatch with a very long boot.
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I don't have children and would not use the Verso for such - I want it for surfing - but I would never consider putting anyone in the third row of the Verso.
IMPO it is too near the rear and simply too cramped. Goodness knows how they would ever get anyone out of there in a smash!
The other draw-back is that even with the rar two seats folded flat the boot space does not look much. How on earth they expect anyone to fill all the seats and yet not have any space to carry luggage, bags, etc, is beyond me.
Even as a single man I know that you have need of a Verso because you have loads of kids that you will undoubtedly also need room for the usual stuff that you need to carry for them.
I think the Verso would have been better as it was originally - a 5-seater with lots of room.
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I don't have children and would not use the Verso for such - I want it for surfing >>
Er, I wasn't aware that being able to float was one of the Versos virtues? ;-)
Forget cars, proper surfers have vans!
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I have considered them. Was considering a Mazda Bongo convert for some time but I am just too big for a Jap van. Most surfers I know have Merc vans now - they are considered the cool ones but others have the VW T4.
I like my comforts though.
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horrible ! the heads of the test dummies in the third row of seats actually hit the bonnet
Cheers Dave, cheer me up why don't you ;P
Yes indeed the third row is not why we're buying the car nor do we plan to use it.
Know someone else who has got to get 4 kids in and he's ruled out all mid-sized
MPVs out for that self same reason.
On the same note happened to see this last night uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CSEl2ueCATs which leaves me no choice but to buy an APC.
Edited by Webmaster on 09/01/2009 at 00:28
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Cheers Dave cheer me up why don't you
Sorry bud
Previously I`ve talked about the safety of the Verso with a lad at work who takes the grandkids up the caravan most weekends during the summer in his and we both naively thought that there must be some sort of reinforcement across the back.
Edited by Webmaster on 09/01/2009 at 00:28
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I can declare an interest here as a Verso owner and father of (only) two. Like others here, we wanted to take a third passenger (small or full size) in the second row, and the Verso accomplishes that brilliantly - unlike, say, the Mazda 5 and Ford C-Max, whose centre seats are uselessly narrow. The FR-V may be fine if you're of typical Japanese proportions (and I don't mean a Sumo wrestler) but if you have long arms and pointy elbows, you'll find the door and your fellow occupants uncomfortably close. It has horrible seats too.
During the selection process, we discounted the S-Max, impressive as it is, because we simply don't need anything that big, and we visualized pretty much what Fifth Gear made real in terms of the survivability of a rear-end collision for the people in the last row.
A few thoughts that spring from watching that clip:
- Despite being an old design, that Zafira's basic shape stood up pretty well to being hit hard by a much heavier vehicle. Much of the energy of the impact seemed to have been diverted downward, which may at least have served to protect those in the second row.
- I would hope a more modern vehicle would have coped a bit better. The Verso and S-Max have hefty triangular rear pillars, which create a nasty blind spot when trying to judge a right-left merge at the M4-M25 junction but might just make the difference in an accident like this.
- The bigger dummy looked cramped in that seat and was probably less than ideally protected as a result. I don't think anyone above primary school age should be riding in the third row.
- I'm not sure whether I should show it to Mrs dB!
- I feel we're probably right to restrict use of the third row seats to short journeys on slowish roads. In eight months, we've used all seven seats only once, and that was just for a trip across town. (In any case, if we're going further afield, we probably need the luggage space that the third row would occupy.)
- I think the presenter's stat about 30% of accidents happening to stationary vehicles must include a vast number of shunts in queues and car parks, and very few life-threatening nasties like the one simulated here.
Still, best never to forget that any of our cars is only as safe as it's driven. Be careful out there!
}:---)
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Thanks for that WillDeBeest. How do you find the boot space in the Verso generally? I am talking about the space when the third row of seats is flat?
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In our usual 5-seat configuration, the boot space is very good. My view of any car is coloured by being 6'5" and generally taking more than my fair share of space, but even with the driver's seat set for me, we don't have to use all the rearward travel in the second row to give my 7-yo son enough room behind me. That means that in family trip mode, we have an extra 10cm or so of load length to fill. It was well up to the task of taking our holiday luggage for two weeks of self-catering in France.
When the boys and I do bike outings, we can fit the smallest (20in wheel) bike in the boot, with the helmets, provisions etc., while the other two go on the roof.
There are a couple of minus points. One is that the folded seats themselves, neat as they are, take up space, and there'd be usefully more luggage room if we could leave them at home or do without them altogether. The other is that the luggage blind is fiddly to install and seems to sit too low. I'm wondering whether it would be possible to engineer a rigid or semi-rigid alternative that would fit to the same mounting points but leave more space underneath.
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Thanks for the info WillDeBeest.
Although not as tall as you one of the things that I like about the Verso is that I don't feel cramped in the driver's seat - plenty of head, leg and elbow room if you are a tall skinny sod like or, I assume, if you are a tad plump.
How do you find the seat of the driver's seat? I read one review that said it was narrow/short but I had not noticed it myself until it was brough to my attention. Btw, remind please do you have the petrol or diesel?
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There are a couple of minus points. One is that the folded seats themselves neat as they are take up space and there'd be usefully more luggage room if we could leave them at home or do without them altogether. >>
This is a difficult decision when it comes to MPVs. We have a Citroen C8 with removable seats and a garage to put them in. The seats are big and heavy, but you do get a van-sized car with them out.
Folding seats are probably easier to use, if a bit less substantial, and handier if you have nowhere to store them, but they do reduce the maximum capacity.
Decisions, decisions ...
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Yes, but the rear two folding seats on the Verso, when flat, provide a big flat area in the rear of the Verso when you fold down the second role of seats. Unlike, say, the Golf Plus which is all uneven when its seats are folded and which is incredible that it was designed, IMPO, so badly.
I can see the benefit of being able to remove the rear two seats in the Verso but no way would I want to attempt to lift tyhe second role seats out. I would worry too much about my back and bits!
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Yes, but the rear two folding seats on the Verso, when flat, provide a big flat area in the rear of the Verso when you fold down the second role of seats ...
Have either of you looked at any conventional Estates as alternatives to the MPV thing?
Edited by pants on 09/01/2009 at 21:30
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Not really but I am begining to. I think part of the reason why I have not yet bought the Verso is that my heart ain't truly in it.
Then again, I doubt I want the length of car that most estates are as the Verso is not that long a car. I saw one parked next to a Clio this week and there looked very littled difference in outside dimensions.
The room inside the Verso is important if yoy are tall or long-legged and the high riding position is important to me.
If you can recommend a few estates I will take a look?
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My Merc E class estate has plenty of length inside for my windsurf boards, masts, sails, etc. ;-)
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Oh heck, I'm about to default into predictability again but....
My 6'5" pal has one and he's a surfer.........
Whisper.....Mondeo estate.
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And the new Mondeo is as big a current E-Class too. The saloon is even longer ;-)
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The new Mondeo is longer than the USS Nimitz. I have this week been looking at them at Motorpoint for about 6 to 9K. Tempting.
.*********
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You'd never regret it Tawse. You might even give it a name.....
What's more, according to my surfer dude pal they are pretty cool in those circles.
I have one one, well an old one anyway, ( among other things, sniffs haughtily ) never thought of it as cool but there you go......
;-)
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 09/01/2009 at 22:22
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Nicer to drive and less mumsy than a Verso, too
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I hear you both. Not sure how I would get them down the narrow country lanes in West Wales and Cornwall though. Isn't the Mondeo wider than the Spruce Goose?
Seriously, I have revisited the Mondeo several times in recent months and I have never been able to get a comfy position in one, find the seat angled in such a way that it prohibits healthy breathing and my thighs have been jammed up against the steering wheel no matter how much I move the seat around.
Odd, as the previous model Mondeo, of which a friend has a diesel estate, had great seats and a great seating position behind the wheel.
I was looking at the video review of the new model estate over on Whatcar a few days ago and, halfway through, there is a side shot of the reviewer sat in the driver's seat - have a look at it and notice not only how cramped his stomach is but how the seat of the seat is angled so that his knees are up above his hips. For all sorts of health reasons this is really, really, really bad for you both in breathing terms and in general stress on joints.
I have to say that the Mondeo has always been a good drive. I first hired one back in the 1980s and was amazed how well it drove, how secure it felt on the road and how good the brakes were. After a couple of Nissans, which I owned - Sunny and Cherry - the hire of the Mondeo at work was like a breath of fresh air. I could not believe that a car would feel so safe on the road and so comfortable.
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So, save your hard earned and buy a Mk 3 estate ? Some VG deals now on those. Could even be persuaded to flog Betsy to to good home....If I thought I could get away with it...Nah, forget it, I quite like walking without a limp !
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To answer Tawse's last couple of questions:
- Ours is a T3 diesel, which is plenty fast enough and reasonably economical (42ish mpg). It's also silver, like everyone else's - not because we wanted a silver car but because Toyota ran right out of creativity just before they came to print the colours brochure. I actually followed Mrs dB for about a mile the other day before realizing who was in front of me.
- I find the seats pretty good, especially as a passenger. I'm not especially wide, and I find the side bolsters are pretty well judged. (The T180 has pumped-up 'sports' seats, which seem a bit overdone to me.) There are well-placed armrests too, that I can actually use.
- The driving position is less happy - even pulled right out, the wheel is a little too far away and a bit high for my liking. The height adjustment is also poor, angling the seat cushion progressively downward as only the rear edge rises. The pedals are very well placed and there's plenty of room for my size 47s, even in clunky walking shoes.
- I should add here that my regular drive-to-work car - and benchmark for driver comfort - is a Volvo S60. Judged against most cars I've driven, the Verso is very comfortable; against the Volvo, it falls a little short.
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It's over my budget but what about a Kia Ceed SW,
not actually looked at one myself though.
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I've had and got both MPV's and estates. IMHO - Vauxhall Zafira - owned x 2 great folding seats, loads of room, cheap to run. Top box for holidays. Liked sensible middle seat seatbelt.Some cars (Tink this includes Verso), have more complicated overhead fastening. Now have Grande Espace - heavy seats, safe as houses, smooth as silk, real arm-chair driving. Good for different kid car seats etc. I will have another. Also had Escort estate and now have Megan Estate. The Megan is huge (actual load space is bigger than older Laguna). All are disels as I do 24,000 business miles and 12,000 family miles across the two cars. Zafira was mid 45mpg, the Escort did 45mpg - but was older car, Megan does 55mpg, Espace only does 39mpg.
So - bottom line is decide what you need a car to do - carry people or stuff, long stuff or boxes. If I was into surfering I could easily justify an Espace - swing rear seats around and watch sunset over the beach - did that last year (minus the boards!) in North Devon
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I used to have an Espace but I'm much better now...
Hardly ever need the tablets these days
;-)
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I'd ruled out the Renaults as there seem to be so many
horror stories with their reliability?
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I've looked at this thread as it has developed and I might just as well add my two penn'orth. Having owned my Berlingo for nearly two years now I would recommend one unreservedly. Lots of prejudice out there but ask an owner and you'll get unabated enthusiasm. 5 very comfortable seats, quite a few useful toys - more than you might think- and huge carrying capacity. Rear seats that split fold in two seconds, leaving a flat loadbay you could sleep in. 50 mpg and cheap insurance. Struggling to think of a negative.
Edited by mlj on 10/01/2009 at 11:43
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Is the engine a bit difficult to get to like the Xsara Picasso ;?
Edited by pants on 10/01/2009 at 12:26
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I picked up my diesel 2.0 T2 Verso last Saturday so have only have a week's worth of observation. We bought it as we couldn't fit two high backed boosters and my mother in the back of the car, rather than for it being a 7 seater - glad to have read this thread actually, will only be using them for local emergency use if ever. Did a short trip yesterday with DH sitting in the middle of the seats and being perfectly comfortable so that has worked well.
Boot space is pretty decent and we will be able to get a fair bit more in than our old corolla. Did a Makro trip yesterday and it comfortably took a good trolley load plus a 10kg pack of cat food, children's swimming bags and school bags, without moving the seat forward. Was warned the boot cover is tricky but haven't taken it off as yet, was easy to put on.
Minor gripe is they've put the clock in the digital display with the mpg info, was warned it is a bit annoying and it is. Also agree with what I had read that the headlights aren't as good as they could be. Oh and at 5ft 6 I'm not tall enough to reach into the middle of the windscreen to scrape it which has been relevant with the temperature this week. But all is pretty minor.
Tawse did warn me that it could do with parking sensors on it as you can't see much of the front bonnet and he is right. However having said that I've been fine so far and I've been in some tight spots this week as they've dug up my road and there are roadworks everywhere. DH has struggled a bit more with parking but is improving slowly.
Not sure of what average mpg is going to be as yet so can't report that. Was pleased to see that has the Toyota ratchet system on the seat belts which gave me a few nightmares with old car and baby seats but is great for older children in boosters. Wish I had had it when dealing with babies and toddlers, would have made life a lot easier. Love the way the three seats in the middle row can be slid backwards and forwards independently unlike the bench seat in the Zafira we looked at.
Mine is only a T2 so not as high spec as the one the ones mentioned in the OP , has 57k on the clock, is a 54 reg and I paid £5750 from a Peugeot dealer (who was excellent) with little bits like superguard, touching in a bit of the plastic in the back, week free insurance, some diesel and a 6 month warranty. I'm happy with that and if it is as reliable as my old corolla I will be delighted.
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I am glad that the Verso is prooving a good buy for your Pipkinjoe. I hope you have many years of happiness with it.
I suspect you will 'learn' where the front and rear of the car is in time. I see many Versos around, which are 2 or 3 years old, with no parking sensors and they appear to be mark free.
Edited by Webmaster on 11/01/2009 at 00:02
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Thanks WillDeBeest - much appreciated.
I didn't realise that you had the big, sexy T180. Not at all "mumsy" :-)
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I notice on Honda's site that a dealer near me is listing about a dozen 2007 CRV diesels for a fiver short of 13K now - my local dealer wants 18K and up.
There are no pictures of the cars yet - just details such as colour and mileage - so I am not sure if they actually have them in stock. I hope it is not something like Ford Direct where you turn up and the dealer says "Yes, I can order that for you!".
I was chatting on another forum about this and someone posted that they had heard that lots of CRVs are being handed back on PCP deals before the 'owners' have to take up the buy option. The poster suggested that these CRVs I had seen were such and that the garage probably had the details of the cars, had bought them in but were awaiting their arrival in the showroom.
I mention this as the Honda dealership is opposite a Toyota one and friends have offered - I am careless currently - to drive me to both dealers next week to have a look at both the CRV and Verso side by side.
.*********
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Tawse, that is the year the old CRv ws changed for the new shape, so the website might be showing old shapes and your dealer new shapes?
Also, would suggest that these are not PCP, maybe a bit too early for the final payments being required?
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Thanks Bobby - old model was my first thought but when I checked each individual ad, even though they did not an actual photo, they had a standard image of the new model.
Also, in the description of each car, they had ES, EX and, I forget, the other new model CRV designations which are different to the old model which was things like Sport, Exec and something else.
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Something further to add my previous comments. Went to a farm today that had a relatively bumpy entrance road. Found the suspension is rather firm. I don't know if this is just specific to my car but definitely something to check if you're planning to use it for surfing Tawse.
A friend has the CRV as they go off road for camping a lot, they absolutely love it. I did consider it but couldn't afford a diesel and the mpg plus car tax put me off the petrol. Following my farm incident yesterday I recommend that you test drive both somewhere on uneven road.
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Thanks Pipkinjoe - I will check that. I too like the petrol CRV but like you the VED and MPG is prohibitive now. I know of a few people who loved their CRVs until both went up in the past year.
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