Love this quote: "but you never get the full money back form the insurance"
Not if you're expecting £10'000. :)
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"I will have to get a new car, My chrysler Neon is pretty much written off -------"
Every cloud has a silver Lining
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May be they have now resolved their earlier disputes about parking .......
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I have read what HJ says on this subject and I understand it. However, as an occasional user of automatic gearbox cars I find it easier to stick what I normally do. I have two feet, I use the left for the clutch and the right to accelerate and brake. If there is no clutch I just use the right foot as normal and keep my left foot away from the pedals. For me the key word is 'normal'; I find it hard to change the driving habits of 50 years and start left-foot braking than to drive the way I usually do. Automatic = no clutch = don't use left foot.
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I find it hard to change the driving habits of 50 years and start left-foot braking than to drive the way I usually do. Automatic = no clutch = don't use left foot.
And therein lies the danger. :(
When you are driving a manual, if you accidentally stab the accelerator instead of the brake while manoeuvring, your left will be covering the clutch, so you can quickly release the drive. On an automatic, you have two choices: either leave your left foot lying idle, or use it to cover the brake and train yourself to use it.
I take the point about it being hard to relearn, particularly for an older person. But to my mind that's a reason not to drive an automatic if you don't want to take whatever time is required to drive it safely.
BTW, no offence intended in that last sentence. There's plenty of things we all avoid learning, and nothing wrong with deciding that one of them is not going to be for me, provided we accept that there's some things we can't do.
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If you don't like the idea of left foot braking all the time, then don't. But do consider left foot braking while manoeuvring. That is when (driving one footed) people are most likely to lose control over an automatic.
HJ
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NW - no offence intended or taken! HJ I understand what you are saying. Horses for Courses I think!
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I usually agree with everything HJ says, but as for left foot braking on automatic cars, this is completely CRAZY. I speak from 60 years of motoring experience having owned 43 cars and 25 automatics. and having driven well over I million miles in all weather conditions. I also have the maximun NCB.
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One day, misbeliever, something will go wrong with your car or your control over your right leg and your Mercedes will end up on top of someone's Chrysler (or worse). More than 100 people are killed this way every year in the UK. It's known as 'unintentional acceleration syndrome'.
HJ
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It is clear to me that HJ will not persuade the Disbeliever, nor vice versa. But I don't think this is a question with only one right answer. The problems arise from drivers switching from manual habits to auto, or driving both kinds alternately. In the US many drivers have driven automatics all their lives, and American cars have big wide brake pedals intended for both feet in an emergency stop - partly because the cars are so heavy. So maybe use both feet to stop - clutch + brake in a manual, brake only in an auto.
I avoid automatics at all times ...
Edited by Andrew-T on 17/01/2009 at 10:58
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They have their attractions - I left foot brake by instinct - perhaps something to do with being left handed - mind you I never had a problem with I-Drive falling instinctively to the "correct" hand as it did.
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I can't say as i've ever had to use left foot braking on proper torque converter auto's, almost without exception you can gradually increase the torque to enable competent movement.
Mind you a few chaps have been caught out with very powerful auto's and have driven or reversed straight off the front of the transporter, generally they were loading the truck in the way it wasn't meant to be.
But as i go about my job, i do keep the left foot handy for stopping the automated manuals at manoeuvre speeds, if you are for example trying move the car over a small bump or similar, some of these dreadful things will all of a sudden engage once you've cleared the obstacle and will suddenly sprint off, not easy to get a smooth controlled take up with many of them.
I admit to being biased against these things, i wouldn't have one as a gift (the Toyo one in the aygo/yaris/C1/107 being a notable exception).
I think its dangerous to get into the habit of left foot braking for normal driving though, as in the event of a panic stop you could end up with both feet on the usually wide brake pedal.
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"Police were called but no action was taken."
What if it had been a bus stop full of school kids? For you or I that would have been "driving without due care". Maybe it helps to have a nice set of pins and a Merc...
I've driven autos and manuals all my 27 years of driving, I've heard about the left foot braking thing for autos but I've always thought what if I get used to it, go back to a manual, panic and can't find the brake pedal with my left foot? On the other hand (or is that foot?) I've never accidentally hit the accelerator when going for the brake on either an auto - or a manual...
I agree he'd be extremely lucky to get 10 grand for the Neon, particularly with those Mickey Mouse hubcaps that look like they come from Lidl.
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What if it had been a bus stop full of school kids? For you or I that would have been "driving without due care". Maybe it helps to have a nice set of pins and a Merc...
Well it wasn't which is why they didn't see fit to take any action :-) Prosecution policies don't depend on hypothetical !
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So justice does not depend on the thought act or deed, but more on the results?
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Probably fails the CPS threshold tests for prosecution: i.e. no-one hurt.
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So prosecution does depend on results then, not how bad the driving was!
Edited by Altea Ego on 17/01/2009 at 16:59
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And elsewhere on here there's a thread about a woman who was done for eating whilst driving yet there's nothing about her causing an accident or any injury by doing so...
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Not only is that Neon worth considerably less than £10,000, the Mercedes in a C-class Sport Coupe, not a B-class.
More sloppy journos at the DT - sort 'em HJ!
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I stay well away from the DT. Much safer.
HJ
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Nice recommendation there John :oD
When did journalists let accuracy get in the way of a good story?
So, we're agreed then chaps, it's ok to drink and drive so long as you don't crash (it's where the discussion's heading...) I reckon it's more a case of the cops using discretion - she doesn't really need prosecution to drive the point home.
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As you've implied yourself Mr Earwig, it seems that being seen eating a crust is more conclusive evidence of being out of control than mounting a parked car ;-)
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If you don't like the idea of left foot braking all the time then don't. But do consider left foot braking while manoeuvring. That is when (driving one footed) people are most likely to lose control over an automatic.
Do you really think that people who are stupid enough to press the wrong pedal with one foot will be capable of using two to left foot brake?
No they wont
Anyone who presses the wrong pedal and has an accident should have their licence revoked and forced to sit another test,
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>>Do you really think that people who are stupid enough to press the wrong pedal with one foot will be capable of using two to left foot brake?
Quite. Why should the dopey be any less likely to hit the wrong pedal just because they use different feet? Or any less likely to mount a nearby Neon once they've done so?
Still, we've rehearsed this argument a few times without changing anybody's mind.
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People do silly things and crash all the time - the amount of silliness is, occasionally, disproportionate to the outcome. Could happen to any of us. Momentary lapse used to be a popular phrase amongst the experts. Doubt whether there are many of us here that haven't had these lapses but have either got away with it or not.
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. Doubt whether there are many of us herethat haven't had these lapses but have either got away with it or not.
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I agree with you PU, and we've all engaged reverse or forward gear by mistake at some point for example, but there's a world of difference between moving a few inches and getting up to the speed needed to climb over another vehicle, apparently by mistake.
Tail wagging the dog?
I'd be inclined to question whether anyone likely to do that should really be in charge of a car.
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I was driving that epitome of sophistication back in the 80s a Bedford CF minibus with the optional 5 speed gearbox. First was a pull back (instead of a push forward) on the gearstick - with reverse where first gear would normally be. That focused the mind at traffic lights and junctions - oh yes !
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>I'd be inclined to question whether anyone likely to do that should really be in charge of a car.
Yes, but how do you know it is 'likely' until it happens? Not many would be so cruel as to say 'I think you are likely to .. so better stop driving' ?
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Yes but how do you know it is 'likely' until it happens?
I apologise and remove the word likely.
Anyone who by mistake manages to gain enough speed to mount another car before being able to stop is obviously not in control of said vehicle.
Is that better AT?
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Anyone who by mistake manages to gain enough speed to mount another car before being able to stop is obviously not in control of said vehicle.
You have elegantly the sort of situation which makes LFB such a good idea. LFB makes it harder to lose control and easier to regain it once lost.
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>Is that better AT?
Sorry, GB - I thought you were suggesting that somehow the culprit in this case might have been prevented from getting that far. I see that you actually mean their licence should be withdrawn afterwards, which makes sense, even if still harsh.
>Anyone who by mistake manages to gain enough speed to mount another car ..
But I thought they were trying to stop but hit the wrong pedal? Easy really, in a narrow street with no space to react in time.
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But I thought they were trying to stop but hit the wrong pedal? Easy really in a narrow street with no space to react in time.
I understand your point AT, however even though the newspaper reports the vehicle as being a B class MB, it looks suspiciously like a C class to me, which means it will be RWD and have a proper torque converter auto (if my eyes decieve me i shall be glad to admit to being wrong).
As such the vehicle wll have a gentle creep whilst in gear and unless is a 320K or above will drive away with easy control, not saying 320K's and above are not controllable, just they obviously require a driver with at least a smattering of competence which appears to be missing here, and no doubt part of the reason they go up to around group 18/20 insurance.
And my original point still stands, we've all moved a few inches by mistake, but i would like to know just what summary speed and throttle position would result in the mishap shown.
Maybe the driver involved would be better off in a car more suited to their skills.
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I always take HJ seriously, but I've never managed to be convinced by this left-foot braking stuff.When you are driving a manual if you accidentally stab the accelerator instead of the
brake while manoeuvring your left will be covering the clutch so you can quickly release the drive. >>
Firstly, so what? You are on the move by then, and releasing the clutch isn't going to stop you. Secondly, I always found it extremely difficult to operate a clutch when reversing or manoeuvring in a tight space, because you are not sitting normally.
Anyway, the woman in the story must have kept hard at it, mustn't she? I mean, what speed do you have to be going at to mount another car?
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I'm surprised that such speed can be attained to mount a car. I don't understand why folks don't wait and feel the slight 'creep' in the right direction after changing gear before hitting the accelerator.
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"But I thought they were trying to stop but hit the wrong pedal? Easy really, in a narrow street with no space to react in time."
Thank you, Andrew T, for reinforcing my point. Most people have two feet and an automatic has two pedals. If each foot is dedicated to a pedal (when manoeuvring), then the right foot cannot "accidentally" stamp on the accelerator instead of the brake.
If drivers aren't happy about left foot braking out on the open road, fine. But one foot for each pedal absolutely guarantees full control over an automatic when manoeuvring. Especially when it has just been cold started and may be running at high enough revs to engage drive without touching the pedals.
HJ
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I've never seen the attraction of left-foot braking unless you're driving a go kart. I wonder if any stats are kept on the number of accidents caused by it?
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>>Especially when it has just been cold started and may be running at high enough revs to engage drive without touching the pedals.
Drive is only engaged when you move the gear selector, something that should only be done with your foot on the brake. I assume you mean the engine is running fast enough to move the car without touching the pedals when the gear is engaged which can't happen with the footbrake on.
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I didn't think the fast idle on modern cars would be enough to send one hurtling forward with enough speed to climb on top of another car.
Reminds me of the Sunbeam up the road from me many years back, the lady driver of which used to pull the choke all the way out so it was revving at about 3 grand, then dump it in drive (ouch!) That didn't hurtle forward tho, it just span the back wheels half a turn.
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I couldn't understand driving an auto with two feet - until I tried a new X-type Jag.
There is no way I could get the thing over the small ramp into my yard under any sort of control unless I used a bit of throttle and brake at the same time.
Edited by ifithelps on 18/01/2009 at 17:42
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