Watch one of the many 'Police' programmes that are proliferating on TV at the moment and all will be revealed.
dvd
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Watch one of the many 'Police' programmes that are proliferating on TV at the moment and all will be revealed.>>
Just a set up for the TV cameras? :)
Edited by Old Navy on 07/02/2009 at 11:44
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Tut you can get three points on your licence for that, oh and while they are it they will give you another 3 for speeding, and then those tyres oh dear, another 6 points there, 12 points banned sir.
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Give us a clue DVD! No matter how cryptic if you have signed the offical secrets Act. It takes me a while to realise they are all repeats so I'd rather not watch all of them, especially Roadwars of which I think each episode has been repeated twice a day for three years!!
Edited by Hamsafar on 07/02/2009 at 11:48
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"Normally I don't see that many police cars on the motorway network in a 1000-mile week, what was going on??"
The Police were doing their job! ANPR its the future.
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The spin on ANPR is that it's to catch unlicensed, uninsured drivers. The real reason is to catch VED dodgers because the increases in VED have made VED a very significant source of government revenue to pay for the millions it employs who then vote it back into office.
HJ
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Sorry HJ, but as a daily user of ANPR, you're completely off the mark.
We certainly don't use it as a VED 'enforcement' tool. Nor in all the years I've had it at my disposal, has it ever been used in such a manner. It's primary purpose is an anti-crime tool, working off intell reports added to PNC. It has a secondary purpose to catch no insurance and disqualified drivers. No VED doesn't even come into it.
Edited by midlifecrisis on 07/02/2009 at 13:08
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MLC, HJ is on the money if watching these cop-car programmes are anything to go by. The police officers involved in the programme I watched said clearly that it was to combat serious crime - so you're right on the public message.
Yet the rest of the programme was spent catching people without insurance and/or VED.
You're obviously involved yourself so I can't argue with your own expereinces(!) but I can only think that different constabularies work differently?
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How about everything from armed robbers, kidnappers, murderers to people wanted for assaults, stolen cars, fraudsters etc etc. Of course, pinging a no insurance happens more often, so a cameraman sitting in the back gets more footage of this sort of thing. Many of the crime arrests can't be shown for numerous reasons.
However, I digress. The point made was that ANPR was a tool conceived solely as a means of collecting VED revenue. It's not .
Edited by midlifecrisis on 07/02/2009 at 13:32
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And no VED often = No insurance, No MOT, Driving licence and C+U offences as well as outstanding warrants etc.
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'It's primary purpose is an anti-crime tool, working off intell reports added to PNC.'
And it thats lies a danger. People are finding themselves on intell reports for the vaguest of reasons. Just buying a car in all innocence , unaware that some criminal has used it before, can see you being added to intell. It's only when you have been stopped a couple of times that you start to wonder why and then believe me, it's a struggle to get the erroneous info removed. ( not me but some one I helped through this problem ).
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Last week, I got busted by the POLICE on the M1. Their ANPR couldn't read my number-plates because the backing was not reflective enough as they were not DVLA-spec as I had them made abroad with my UK reg.
The Police man demonstrated on his ~12" LCD touch screen how his front camera wasn't recognising that there was a number plate in front of it where my car was parked. While I was sat there getting a yellow slip, the rear camera was monitoring passing traffic and said ATTENTION! on four separate occasions and would show a large still pause of a vehicle with the words "NO REGISTERED KEEPER WITH DVLA" in red over the top. Two of these were Transit vans pulling large caravans, the other two old worthless cars. On the right of the screen there was a column of number-plates and thumbnails of their corresponding vehicles. Some of these were foreign and it was apparent that these had been read just as easily as a UK one. These four vehicles that flagged up would then slide over and be added to this column on the right and the Policeman could touch one to bring it back to the full-screen foreground. It appeared that there were two cameras in each ANPR enclosure, one a colour camera as a sort of electronic notebook, and an infrared one with infra-red LEDs which I have since read are to make the reflective number plates stick out like sore thumbs to the IR camera, a bit like when you take a picture of a car with a flash and the number-plate is burned out on the photo. The software then easily identifies this object as a plate and segments the characters and reads them with OCR and then checks them with many many databases. The POLICE men were most gracious in their dealings with me.
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But it will be, midlife, it will be. You are being used to create the spin that makes it acceptable.
HJ
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Nobody is 'using' me. I would hope I'd be credited with a bit more intelligence than that. What I'm doing is telling you what ANPR is actually used for.
The only 'spin' that's being created is the scaremongering taking place on here. I'm no fan of this Government (and I use the word advisedly), but you're way off the mark on this one.
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I can't see the problem here - I tax my car like most people. APNR is not costing us anything if we are law-abiding. Might even be saving money in the long run. Who can object to it?
People with dodgy documents?
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ANPR is a Government's dream tool for crushing dissent. 'Insight Through Interactions' is a buzzword making it's way through the crooked establishment and is being sold as the panacea by the likes of ICTS and Nice Systems. Imagine if the Countryside Alliance or whoever decided to travel to some event. The 'system' would pick up that say more than 5 vehicles with a 'dissenter' marker had passed the same point and could even tell where a meeting is likely to occur as vehicles from all directions will be 'seen' and their point of intersection plotted. Traffic delays or roadblocks and searches could then be carried out to disrupt this. What's more, ANPR can then flag other people by association. This is the future of ANPR.
www.icts.co.uk/
www.nice.com/
Edited by Hamsafar on 07/02/2009 at 14:07
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What do you have to do to get flagged as a 'dissenter'?
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Call the prime minister an idiot on line perhaps?
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"Last week, I got busted by the POLICE on the M1. Their ANPR couldn't read my number-plates because the backing was not reflective enough as they were not DVLA-spec as I had them made abroad with my UK reg."
Display the correct plates and you shouldn't be bothered again.
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If this government hangs onto power, and if it manages to force through the increases in VED it was planning, I'll bet Midlifecrisis a tenner that in five years time it will be using ANPR as well as all the other means at its disposal to enforce it, because it's going to need every penny it can squeeze out of motorists to help repay the mountain of debt it has created.
HJ
Edited by Honestjohn on 07/02/2009 at 14:41
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If this government hangs onto power and if it manages to force through the increases in VED it was planning I'll bet Midlifecrisis a tenner that in five years time it will be using ANPR as well as all the other means at its disposal to enforce it because it's going to need every penny it can squeeze out of motorists to help repay the mountain of debt it has created.
I think HJ and mlc are BOTH correct....because:
At the moment mlc is absolutely right in that although the ANPR databases have the facility to search wide and varied systems, the operators of it rely on the police to stop people and deal with them...and tax evasion is not a police priority and never really has been
yes, there are occasions when there are joint agency operations, but in reality these ops are not that often
however...this govt has favoured the watering down of police roles and allowing others to do what traditionally the police used to e.g. Highways Agency Traffic Officers; PCSO's; etc.
So how long will it be that ANPR will be used and the power to 'stop' a motor vehicle will be afforded to a number of agencies other than the police.
A while ago, who would have thought, for example, that a school could fine you for taking your kid on holiday in term time..or.. a cctv operative could send you a parking fine in the post
If i were mlc, i wouldn't be betting HJ his tenner
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What do you have to do to get flagged as a 'dissenter'?
Be white and English I would think - we are probably the only ones who the Race Relations act doesn't apply to so we can't sue.
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There was certainly an ANPR trap on the M6 Toll Road northbound, and not far before the toll plaza when I used it recently.
There were goodness how many marked and unmarked Police cars and bikes there. A few things seemed odd to me:
1) Having it on the Toll Road at all - that wouldn't seem an obvious route for those who don't like paying for things.
2) Having it quite close to the toll plaza - I saw one incident where a marked car set off in pursuit but the chasee got to the tolls first. Pandemonium then ensued as the Police car drove across the lines of traffic to get through the plaza on the right. Surprisingly, he got through and then just sat there and did nothing. Maybe he got he information or something?
3) On this particular day the M6 was completely snarled up in several places - those Officers might have been better deployed on keeping the motorway moving. I did wonder if they'd set up on the Toll entirely because the motorway was messed up, but I assume these things take a bit of organising.
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In my area there seem to be ANPR cameras at traffic choke points (bridges over big rivers), airport access roads. and main urban commuter /access routes. I assume they are number plate readers as they are are out of reach on posts or above traffic lights but point down towards the road. Movement monitoring? I expect those who know will be constrained by the official secrets act.
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Oldnavy - yes, you assume they're ANPR cameras. Probably not. The things cost money and there has to be someone to respond to the hits on the system. Most likely monitoring cameras or those private trafficmaster cameras.
HJ - never had you as a conspiracy theorist, despite your views on this Govt. although I agree there's going to be a mountain of debt. BUT, ANPR needs someone to respond to the hits. I'm sure others will agree with me when I tell you that you can't possibly deal with all the hits that it gets. And in any case, why would you oppose tax avoiders being caught, after all, if they don't pay, the revenue will have to be made up from somewhere else. If you imagine ANPR being used to send fines by post then that's dependent on the car having a current registered owner. Most cars being used in some unlawful fashion don't fall into this category - precisely the reason you need someone to actually deal with the driver. Any way, aren't you part exiled these days??!!
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Oldnavy - yes you assume they're ANPR cameras. Probably not. >>
So why are they on all access roads to the airport, even back roads only used emergency vehicles and aircraft spotters, (and me waiting to pick up swmbo when her flight lands, cheaper than the car park). These cameras are unlike the trafficmaster or normal survelliance cameras, and are fixed to cover each lane on the dual lane roads. They may not be ANPR as used bu the traffic police but I would bet that they are number plate readers.
Edited by Old Navy on 07/02/2009 at 17:12
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There are now towns in the North West where just about every major route in and out is covered by ANPR cameras on gantries and poles. The receiving end can be set to ping just for untaxed or uninsured or perhaps just for those cars of interest that have been added to a separate file. Now don't assume that 'interest " means johnny burglar or crack seller stan.
It could be the vehicles of all those who oppose hunting or whose registered keepers have written to the Telegraph to bad mouth our P.M.
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ANPR doesn't need much human intervention at all. A fixed camera can and does read your numberplate in Leeds, a minute later, a laser printer fires up in Swansea prints you a penalty notice, passes it to a finishing machine which folds it, puts it into an envelope and into a Royal Mail sack. You receive this and pay the fine online.
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That surely only works if the registered keeper is still the person driving the car. I thought a big part of the problem is the cars where the registered keeper details no longer reflect the person who has the car, hence the need for the car to be stopped and the driver dealt with directly.
If the keeper details are correct the chasing for no insurance, no MOT and no VED could all be dealt with from the databases without using cameras.
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Hallelujah! Someone understands!
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Hallelujah! Someone understands!
I did not say that the cameras I was referring to were used for any enforcement, I said "movement monitoring". Number plate readers must have many uses.
Edited by Old Navy on 07/02/2009 at 18:15
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Yes, Woodster, the boys in blue are enforcing the law, making it increasingly difficult to drive a car on UK roads illegally, making every car accountable, and consequently helping the Treasury make sure it rakes in the ever increasing annual taxes on cars it keeps imposing (or trying to impose). Unlike France where VAT rates may be higher but there is no annual tax on cars. (Possibly explaining President Sarkosy's view of our Prime Minister's fiscal policy: "Absurdiment!") My point is that ANPR would never have happened if there wasn't big revenue to be made out of motorists through it.
HJ
Edited by Honestjohn on 07/02/2009 at 20:15
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There was certainly an ANPR trap on the M6 Toll Road northbound and not far before the toll plaza when I used it recently.
And I can tell you that there was certainly no ANPR 'trap' on the M6 Toll.
What you may have seen was an operation targeting stolen plant equipment/caravans ( blimey-the Police doing their job again!)
HJ- I'm confused. You state
"the boys in blue are enforcing the law, making it increasingly difficult to drive a car on UK roads illegally, making every car accountable, and consequently helping the Treasury make sure it rakes in the ever increasing annual taxes on cars it keeps imposing (or trying to impose). "
So do you support catching and punishing those who drive illegally (including the issuing of fixed penalty notices) or not?
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mlc
calm down
it is obvious for all to see that far too much police and other enforcement action is aimed at normal working folk doing minor stuff, cos to be frank they are easy to deal with and they tend to pay up without fighting back
while at the same time the real evil folk are routinely walking the street without fear from any government agency including the police
having been told "sorry we cannot arrest them their fathers are the local big time criminals" about violent thugs while there are plenty of coppers available doing speed checks and other nonsense tending to pick up safe drivers well within safe limits i am staggered that there is any support for coppers left in this country
while idiots like brunstrum are allowed to run police forces this will only get worse
its easy to avoid ANPR just insure the car 3rd party, lie about your record and hey presto you come up clean, sad state of affairs
the mandarins running the police and other agencies have lost the plot and have their priorities all wrong, not the fault of the foot soldiers doing their best
and yes when you have
i) barged in and fought to help a copper being beaten up
and
ii) a few days later get a long cocky lecture for minor speeding by a sarcastic copper - when you know he drives exactly the same off duty
it dont do the police any favours, cos the chances of doing i) again go down significantly
needs a radical rethink all round
no way ill be carrying an id card, and the nonsense against the genuine hard working folk has gone too far, while the real problem folk are routinely back on the streets within a few hours of serious crime
not your fault, but i wouldnt be defending the status quo if i were you
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It's a bit simplistic to look at ANPR as just a tool to remove from our roads, cars being used by those who haven't paid for insurance, car tax or had their vehicle MOT'ed.
Information that can be attached to a registration can inc details about who the car is registered too that can be both absolute truth i.e convictions and suspicions, ie. registered keeper is known to associate with X and Y and whilst having no convictions themselves, X and Y have.
ANPR is not just a tool for the white hats. All forces have a very large and active Special Branch and with no disrespect to the traffic plod who post on here, I'll bet they know comparatively little about the activity of this section of their force.
Hence the example of a convoy of cars all carrying anti hunt supporters or anti Gordon Brown supporters flagging up an alert as they all pass an ANPR camera ( static as opposed to vehicle mounted ). ANPR is not just about detecting motoring offences, it is a very highly organised system for monitoring the general publics movements.
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ANPR is not just about detecting motoring offences it is a very highly organised system for monitoring the general publics movements.
Agreed!
Didn't it originate, during the conflicts in Northern Ireland?
Can't imagine that was just for 'common' motoring offences.
HJ might be correct in the finacial benefits, for our Governmment, but it's further uses are much, much, wider than the general public will ever imagine.
Anyway, down to more motoring related conspiracy theories...
When is Spooks back on & what was the make &model of car, they pictured him gaged & abducted in the boot of??
VB
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"When is Spooks back on "
Start filming March 2009 and to be screened towards the end of the year (?)
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>>it is a very highly organised system for monitoring the general publics movements. <<
Spot on Mr X.
As far as I understand all that APNR sees is recorded and stored for a number of years so if a major crime is committed then they can back track on a vehicle i.e. where it came from where it was going.
Remember the Hells Angel that got shot on a M way down south couple of years ago.
They were able, I understand, to trace them responsible by checking what vehicles were in that particular area at the time of the shooting through ANPR records.
Reported in a Police Mag that testing is now taking place SW of a tweaking on ANPR to a specific area (beat) so that any incursions into that area by a wrong 'un, the system will alert that area car and the chase is on.
dvd
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I'm not questioning your motives, mlc. I'm questioning the motives of the people you ultimately work for. Middle class Brits are real suckers for allowing laws and surveillance to be imposed on them allegedly for their protection, which are then used to control them and to extract vast amounts of money from them. Surveillance cameras, congestion charge cameras, ANPR, LEZ cameras. You may be doing your job catching crims, but that's not why you've got the equipment. The reason is ultimately to make it easier to extract fines income from all the nasty new laws imposed on us. For example, in this morning's mail:-
I received a penalty charge notice in the mail from Camden Council for making an illegal right turn while driving home on the evening of Sunday 1st February. However, this was the evening the snow blizzard hit London and made visibility poor, the snow making it impossible to read that road sign. I am not at all familiar with that part of London and there is no way I could otherwise have known not to make that right turn. Do you think I should argue the penalty? Any feedback would be very welcome!
20 years ago, a rozzer on the street would have had a quiet and sympathetic word with this driver. Now he automatically gets fined. There are now so many changing speed limits and so many laws, rules and regulations with cameras enforcing them that it is almost impossible for the average driver to avoid several fines a year.
Remember how the police were used during the miner's strike? Remember the change in public attitude to the police as a result?
HJ
Edited by Honestjohn on 08/02/2009 at 08:55
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HJ, the middle class brits you speak of are the first to criticize the police for not doing their jobs, and the first to moan when they get done by the police, as they don't consider themselves to be part of the problem.
The idea that the rozzer on the street used to be able to use wisdom and discretion to decide who should be prosecuted is a joke.
Edited by krs one on 08/02/2009 at 09:10
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Today the car - tomorrow the person
The other paper is reporting:
"...THE government is building a secret database to track and hold the international travel records of all 60m Britons. The intelligence centre will store names, addresses, telephone numbers, seat reservations, travel itineraries and credit card details for all 250m passenger movements in and out of the UK each year. The computerised pattern of every individual?s travel history will be stored for up to 10 years, the Home Office admits. The government says the new database, to be housed in an industrial estate in Wythenshawe, near Manchester, is essential in the fight against crime, illegal immigration and terrorism."
More at tinyurl.com/arvocc
Edited by Honestjohn on 08/02/2009 at 11:32
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So what? If you're travelling for legitimate reason and live legitimately (i.e. you're allowed to be here in the first place and pay taxes) then to what use can the information be put?
In the event of terrorist attack or excess illegal immigration the population is very quick to ask what HM Govt. has done. When something is done, people don't like it. None of these policies will change significantly under a different leadership, and they'll have no ill effect on me.
I guess I might think we were heading for a return to 1930's Germany if I read the Daily Mail, but c'mon, can any intelligent person honestly regard such a 'paper' as having informed opinion?
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And Krsone - yes, absolutely right. People expect solutions but don't want to be part of it. The: 'It's everybody else, not me' syndrome.
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Today the car - tomorrow the person The other paper is reporting: "...THE government is building a secret database to track and hold the international travel records of all 60m Britons.
Saw that. I'm not usually moved to put my thoughts in writing about these Govt. initiatives but on this occassion I have to express my anger that we are being asked to pay for a tool which will be used against the general public.
OK, the motives stated for building it may be honorable but we all know that it will cost billions more to develop and in all probability will not work as intended. This system relies on "data" being collected - if they can't get the "data" them the system is useless.
I think crims will understand this and find ways to leave as little "data" as they can and what they do leave will probably be a false trail (forged passports and the like).
What a sad state the UK is in. The time for a new Government has surely come.
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Surely this "collection of data" has been happening for years, the only difference between now and 40 years ago is that computers have made it easier to collect and store the data...
And why pick on the Mail so much? In my job I get to see and read all of the daily rags and can assure you all that the Mail is not alone... in fact they are all as bad as each other... as far as the Mirror is concerned the Gov are always right... the Sun (a paper you look at rather than read!) used to say the Gov was always right but now sits on the fence, the Times pretends to know better than anyone else, the Independant thinks that everyone only wants to know about the third world "news" and the Guardian is unreadable... the Telegraph? As this site is sponsored by them I won't comment fo fear of being banned...
Even the Metro, which just used to report stories without "views" seems to be getting a little political of late...
You pick and choose with views expressed by them, I've seen plenty of sensible views in the Mail, and also plenty of rubbish... but that aplies to all the papers...
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krs with all due respect to you, I think you're possibly basing your opinion on solely your own experiences. If I was to do that for example, every police officer would be perfect, safety cameras "a good thing" and ANPR nothing whatsoever to worry about.
But this is not the case when I look at others' experiences, those who do far more miles than me, and often travel, unlike me, in unknown territory.
Take HJ's point about his right turn above.
The idea that the rozzer on the street used to be able to use wisdom and discretion to decide who should be prosecuted is a joke.
Patently not true in this case. Once, when I had mistakenly travelled the wrong way in a one-way street in Norwich city centre, a police officer flagged me down, had a very polite word with me and sent me on my way. So another case there.
Even within the grubby confines of this goverment's inner circles, there are vocal critics of what is seen as an ever-burgeoning slew of measures to remove discretion on the part of anyone except the authorities. To what end?
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Remember the Hells Angel that got shot on a M way down south couple of years ago. They were able I understand to trace them responsible by checking what vehicles were in that particular area at the time of the shooting through ANPR records.
So that'll be detecting crime then!
For the information of some, I've no need to 'calm down' as I'm not 'up'. Frankly, I don't give a monkeys if the conspiracy theorists want to have a club meet sometime. We haven't got enough people to monitor the cameras we've got, so the suggestion there's rooms full of people monitoring your movements is ludicrous.
HJ- I certainly don't want to give the impression I approve of the use of CCTV cameras to issue tickets in London etc. I don't. And I'd certainly fight yours. But I recognise ANPR for what it is. A very, very effective tool in combating crime.
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We haven't got enough people to monitor the cameras we've got so thesuggestion there's rooms full of people monitoring your movements is ludicrous.
What planet are you on mlc, do you think the police are the only security agency which do survelliance?
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'We haven't got enough people to monitor the cameras we've got'
I attended the opening of an ANPR suite, opened by the Home Sec. This 24/7 staffed purpose built facility was clearly about more than keeping uninsured drivers and car tax dodgers off the road.
The ' if you've done nothing wrong " argument doesn't hold water. If you're not doing ' something wrong " why hold information about you in the first place ?
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Felt I must add this
tinyurl.com/arvocc
(Mr X, please observe the laws of copyright and don't ever quote something without attributing where it came from. Okay to provide a link to the actual item, as I have done here. Not okay to quote it wholesale without a credit.)
Edited by Honestjohn on 08/02/2009 at 16:02
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>>The CIU will also use legal proceedings to prevent details of its operations being made public.<<
Mr X So when you go quiet for 48hrs we will know that THEY have got yer;)
p
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At least I will be in company with HJ. He has a website, he is our leader, he is dangerous to the state.
We joke about this now but little did the pro hunting lobby realise that their phones would be tapped and their mail intercepted when they first organised themselves via the world, wide web.
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Mail on Sunday you say?
Right.
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Nsar,
The story quotes an internal police job advertisement.
You're enttitled to your opinion of the MoS, but all you are doing in this case is shooting the messenger.
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You're enttitled to your opinion of the MoS, but all you are doing in this case is shooting the messenger.
The Daily Mail is such a universal whipping boy for the liberal left now it's beyond parody. If you're a BBC comedian, you must mention the Daily Mail to prove your impeccable liberal credentials.
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The Daily Mail is also the most successful newspaper in the country - it's nearly beaten the poor old Express into extinction.
I can never understand people who jump on where a story appears instead of analysing the story itself.
We all know certain papers publish certain types of story.
It's a bit like buying a copy of the Farmers Weekly and complaining it's full of sheep and cows.
Edited by ifithelps on 08/02/2009 at 10:48
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I'll leave you to it on this one. I'll go back to my planet and take my medication for the high blood pressure I'm presumed to have.
(Or maybe give the three operators who man our control room, monitoring three radio channels and numerous telephone lines, on top of the ANPR system a call. I'm sure they'll be amused at being part of a great conspiracy)
Oh..And I haven't seen many MI5 agents doing an insurance seizure of late.
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Why is it so hard for you to understand that ANPR is multi layered. You midlife, are at the bottom layer, removing untaxed, uninsured dangers from our roads. The next layer is tracking the career criminals and building up their evidence for eventual prosecution. The 3rd layer is the one being used by the people you don't see. It is watching those who represent a possible unrest situation to those in power at present.You don't have to be a bomber, just some one who has whipped up a debate about lack of gritting being the governments fault or some one who has collected the info to show that Speed cameras are not saving lives.
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"just some one who has whipped up a debate about lack of gritting being the governments fault or some one who has collected the info to show that Speed cameras are not saving lives."
Oh dear! I complained about the lack of gritting (on a Police radio as well). Guess that's me screwed then. I'd better get some more tin foil on my head.
(And it may surprise you to know, I'll bet that tenner that I'm far more aware of the capability of ANPR than you)
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' I'll bet that tenner that I'm far more aware of the capability of ANPR than you)
I'm afraid your tenner is not safe. Thats the problem with anon chat rooms such as this. We have to choose to believe or not believe the person we talking too with out being able to bring other factors in to play .
As the big hats often say to me... " What do I know, I'm just a bobby on a beat ".
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This is so hush-hush and dynamite stuff that if you google "confidential intelligence unit" + Scotland Yard it takes you to the job ad itself.
That's there to throw you off the scent you see. The blighters. Really the job ad reads "you will be responsible fro creeping around in the bushes outside Mr X's house and the shadowy figure known only as Honest John, who is only ever seen in disguise of dark glasses and trilby hat."
I'm inclined to believe the experience of people in the job like MLC rather than the febrile scribblings of the Mail who succeed only by playing to the fears of the gullible.
No doubt you will tell me the the Devil's greatest trick was convincing everyone he doesn't exist.....
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I'm inclined to believe the experience of people in the job like MLC rather than the febrile scribblings of the Mail who succeed only by playing to the fears of the gullible.
LOL!! (sorry for the txtspk) It's just so predictable now.
Incidentally MLC, I think you've put your case very calmly and very eloquently. For Nsar's benefit, I didn't seek to contradict your own experiences one bit. I suspect six of one and half a dozen of the other.
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....the febrile scribblings of the Mail....
Nsar,
You are interested enough to find the source of the story yourself and comment about it, yet you still criticise the newspaper that informed you.
I wouldn't want to be the fitter who tells you your car needs a new tyre.
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Sorry HJ please remove your rose tinted.
Middle class Brits of today are becoming the untouchable. In my long life I have seen the sway from accepting responsibility on the chin to wringling/wingeing to get off matters.
Your spat with the sign - you did wrong - if it were me in the old days I would have booked you for making a prohibited right turn. It means does it not you are entering a road with opposing flow of traffic and therefore a danger to all. Even you (and me)HJ cannot get it right all the time.
dvd
(few bottles of red in the sin bin PU please)
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I drove the wrong way down a short one-way street in Northampton late one evening many years ago.
The polis who stopped me sent me on my way after I truthfully told him I was not local and lost.
Make of that what you will.
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I read it as the signs being covered in snow and thus unreadable or unsighted. Does that sort of issue warrant an automatic fine that is out of proportion to the offence committed ?
Of course the moral high ground holders of the BR will point out that on approaching any such turning, we should get out of our cars and look for signs, borrow a ladder and climb up to wipe off any snow or dirt to read those we are unsure if we can not see any obvious instructions for the junction.
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Some useful ANPR applications..............
Arriving at Norfolk Line's Dunkirk ferry port they know who I am and say "Good evening Mr Madux" - saves time queuing (Don't know why they can't do it at Dover.
Parking at Heathrow. Reg. N°. is printed on your ticket. I was trying to work out which particular scam that was intended to prevent when I remembered the murderer who was caught when they "found" his car at the airport.
Does this mean Scotland Yard and NCP are linked?
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DVD, if the sign is not actually readable, as HJ says, then you're being completely unreasonable. The "opposing flow of traffic" which you mention probably didn't exist at the time. Still it's educational to know that some people agree with punishments being meted out even in exceptional cases where heavy snow obstructs signs in areas not well known to drivers.
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Okay, time to calm down. Many thanks for everyone's opinions, all of which are of value in a healthy debate, and some of which I admit I deliberately provoked. I think I'd better shut this one down now.
HJ
Edited by Honestjohn on 08/02/2009 at 11:38
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