Mr X is right. In the long ago old days when all the genuinely immobile got were funny little blue government issue three wheelers with the engines on the sides, I once saw one in York festooned with Cibie spotlights and go faster stripes cornering flat out on two wheels. Now it seems all sorts of people can get a mobility allowance and put it into a car. One source told me that the Motability fleet is now 3 x the size it was just a few years ago, and the discounts it gets from manufacturers mean that manufacturers are effectively subsidising the operation as well as the taxpayer.
HJ
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(Post to Mr X, but I'm not sure if that should include HJ too, I'm very disappointed in you, HJ!)
That post really takes the biscuit... are you for real or just a wind-up merchant...
So, to follow the logic, because you are disabled and can claim MA then you should not be allowed to enjoy yourself and should be limited to a boring, but safe, life, MrX??
Yes, you can get boring and safe cars, but many disabled people also want a life and therefore add some of their own money to upgrade to something better, and why shouldn't they, they don't have the freedom that you or I do by being able to get around on foot, bike, car or on public transport, so I don't see why they should be restricted in their freedom just because of people like you...
There was a sign in our local disabled shop for putting on windscreens of cars of able bodied people parked in disabled spaces, it read: "You've taken my space, now take by disablity"...
Think about it, MrX, before you make any more ill-informed comments...
Edited by b308 on 23/04/2009 at 11:15
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HJ, have you ever tried to get DLA or MA? I assume that you haven't, and in which case I'd suggest you speak to someone who has, we had to "jump through hoops" metaphorically speaking to get them and, from what I can gather after talking to many people who get it we are not alone. There is a rumour around that getting them is easy, let me assure those people, it isn't!!
Edited by b308 on 23/04/2009 at 11:19
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You're going to have to explain the logic behind..
' they don't have the freedom that you or I do by being able to get around on foot, bike, car or on public transport,'
We are talking about some one who has the ability to get about by car ( a motobility car ) and wether they can soup up a vehicle supplied under Motobility.
If they are being provided with a car under MA, then surely their freedom is being looked after. ?
Edited by Honestjohn on 23/04/2009 at 15:04
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They can't just "take a walk in the country" or a cycle ride... or even nip to the shops without a great deal of trouble... unlike you or I who can just do it without any problems whenever we want... in other words their freedom is severely restricted... is that clearer?
Re the second part many disabled people work, the MA is an allowance by the Gov to help them get around... so why shouldn't they have the ability to be able to get a better car or improve the one they have in the same way you or I do to our cars? They are using their own money to do this, its not tax payers money.
Edited by b308 on 23/04/2009 at 11:45
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Are you missing the point deliberately ?
Why would loss of the freedoms you describe mean that they should have the right to make their car accelerate faster and achieve higher speeds ?
As HJ pointed out, gone are the days of those dangerous, unsafe blue noddy cars and the mobility allowance ( correct me if I am wrong ) can be used against the purchase of any car on the market . If the number of MA cars on our roads has increased by a factor of 3 over the last few years, that would indicate that requirements re hoop jumping are not as stringent as we are led to believe.
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As I said to HJ, MrX, try talking to someone who has those allowances and how "easy" it was to get them... I can assure you from our experience it was not easy...
As for the other comment, no, I'm not missing the point... the MA rate only gets you a very basic, small, car, if you want anything bigger then you have to put your own money in, so I really can't see where there's an issue, you and I aren't subsidising the larger cars or mods, the disabled person is, just like you or I would if we wanted a better car...
BTW it doesn't stop there, any help for disabled people is very much a "post code lottery" like health care for us better off people, except for them they have little choice if they need something - despite my wife getting DLA and MA we have still had to fork out thousands of our own money for things to help her round the house and even a wheelchair (!) that the national and local gov don't provide... Most genuinely disabled people try their utmost to lead as normal a life as possible and a very large percentage hold down jobs and pay taxes... So why shouldn't they be allowed to try to improve their life just like you or I?
From your comments I assume that you'd rather them be stuck away out of sight and out of mind (at least yours, but not their families')... bring back the asylums, eh!
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A Daily Mail reader no doubt
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I would be uncomfortable with the idea that once in receipt of this benefit, individuals could start ' souping " such vehicles up with re mapping or chipping of engine management systems.
Mr X, would you also be 'uncomfortable' if say, a pensioner used part of their government funded pension to do such a thing, or if someone spent part of their family credit buying something you didn't approve of? As far as I can see, the higher rate DLA award is meant to enhance the lifestyle/mobility of the recipient - if their life is enhanced by wanting to drive a bit more sportily wants wrong with it? It seems this is a question for the recipient, Motability, the manufacturer & the insurance company - and nobody else.
Or would you further suggest that the new 'scrappage scheme' should come with rules & provisos re modifications too - after all, that's government funded isn't it?
Now it seems all sorts of people can get a mobility allowance and put it into a car.
HJ, well all sorts of people are disabled - if you have doubts about 'worthiness' or qualifying criteria, perhaps you could elucidate? It's a valid question, but not really relevant to the OP's question.
One source told me that the Motability fleet is now 3 x the size it was just a few years ago, and the discounts it gets from manufacturers mean that manufacturers are effectively subsidising the operation as well as the taxpayer.
So, no different really to any large organisation or fleet buyer then - should Motability be penalised or prohibited for negotiating favourable deals? The Motability scheme is voluntary for manufacturers & dealers - they put forward lists of cars/leasing costs to Motability, not vice versa. In these straitened economic times, Motability should be thanked for providing a large (and hitherto untapped) market for new cars - not criticised.
If you look at the lists of 'approved' Motability cars you'll notice many are entry level models & the leasing costs are not that different to commercial leasors - in fact I'd say higher in some cases. Motability recipients do have the option of 'topping-up' their Motability vehicle with their own extra contribution if they want something a bit better than basic - and good luck to them.
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Is the disability allowance for the use of a car or to actually buy it?
I think thats the nub.
If its to simply lease a car and then to hand back then I assume its never owned by the individual.
I cant imaging hiring a car from Avis and then tuning it up and sending it back with 30% more power. Who'd buy it later? How could the Lease company value it?as it would affect the lease cost as the residuals would be lower for a modded car.
If the person concerned wanted to mod a Government provided car - fine - so long as the risks associated with voided warranty and diminished resale is adequately covered by said individual.
All IMO.
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David, just to clarify, there are two elements to Disabled allowances, Disabled Living Allowance and Motability Allowance, unless you are on the higher rates of DLA you don't get MA (thats it, roughly).
If you get higher rate Motability Allowance then you can either use the moneys to buy yourself transport (such as a car, wheelchair or mobility scooter) or just use the money to fund the use of taxis, etc., to get yourself around or...
The other alternative is to use the Motability Scheme where they take all your motability allowance and provide you with a car or electric scooter. Its a lease scheme, you have the car for 3 years then you can buy it or send it back and get a replacement (just like a company car, in fact).
As to what car you get, well that depends on you and your personal circumstances... if you get a basic small car then you will pay your MA to them but thats it, they service it and you provide fuel, and there is also a mileage limit, if you go over that you pay a penalty.
However if you want something more than the basic and have the funds then you can pay extra up front and get a better car, or better-spec'd car... though at the end of the three years though they get the car back and you don't get anything for any improvements you may have made to it or any extra money you paid out in the first place. Thats how we got the level 3 Roomster, we paid some extra at the outset because that car suited our needs better.
They are very strict on what you can do to the car, including what fuel you can use, any damage caused by misuse would have to be paid by the individual... going back to the OP the only way of really knowing whether they'd allow chipping would be to ask them.
Edited by b308 on 23/04/2009 at 14:37
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Lets ban all PCP agreements and also company car schemes then .
Lets ban family tax credit !! they may spend it on a McDonald and enjoy themselves
I know to some disabled people it has made a huge difference to there quality of life and just because they are disabled does not mean they should have less choice than an able bodied person
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A Daily Mail reader no doubt
Me or MrX?
(If me, why??)
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Mr X sorry about that !! I tried to edit my post to make it more clear but was unable
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Put it this way, yesterday I gave 40 baht to a woman with no arms, and yesterday and the day before I gave 40 baht to a guy with one leg and one arm who stretched out begging on the sidewalk and even in that terrible state had the good grace to say "thank you". Over the years I've given hundreds of quid to people like this on the streets of Thailand, including a young lad with no legs who gets about on a skateboard. My choice. Freely given. The fact that the Motability fleet has apparently more than doubled in size over the last couple of years suggests to me that many taxpayers are funding 'disabled' people to drive or be driven around in better cars than they can afford. The motor industry MD who told me about this was complaining that his company had been selling cars to Motability Finance at a loss. Not minimum profit. A loss, because of the huge discount Motability demanded on top of the huge discount they were already getting because of the devaluation of sterling. So let's get a little bit real, shall we? I recently had a bleating e-mail from a disabled lady complaining that she couldn't get an automatic on the scheme for her friends to drive her around in for LESS than the mobility allowance. She wanted a bit left over for their ciggies and sweets.
HJ
Edited by Honestjohn on 23/04/2009 at 15:25
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Actually HJ, several automatic cars are available on the Motability scheme which don't use up all the allowance eg the Kia Picanto 2 1.1 automatic, which uses £46 per week of the allowance.
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So you can get an allowance , you don't have to spend all of it on the vehicle and there is some left over to be spent on something completely unrelated. Beggars belief frankly.
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The motor industry MD who told me about this was complaining that his company had been selling cars to Motability Finance at a loss. Not minimum profit. A loss, because of the huge discount Motability demanded on top of the huge discount they were already getting because of the devaluation of sterling. So let's get a little bit real, shall we?
Since a manufacturer or dealer isn't compelled to provide any cars at any particular price to Motability or have any sort of business relationship at all, I can't understand the MD's assertion I'm afraid. If the MD could sell his/her cars on the open market at a profit, why would he/she sell them, voluntarily, to Motability at a loss?
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The dealer makes money on the 3 year (or even 5 years for the more heavily adapted vehicles) lease, by billing Motability for providing the servicing every year of the lease for the car.
They also receive bonuses for providing a good level of service to the Motability customers (or not, if they fail to provide a good service and Motability are notified, bonuses are withheld).
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So you can get an allowance you don't have to spend all of it on the vehicle and there is some left over to be spent on something completely unrelated. Beggars belief frankly.
>
>Mr X, I am amazed that you are amazed that people in receipt of government benefits can spend them on what they like.
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Not amazed in that way but surely if you qualify for a motoring related benefit that is in place to provide you with motorised transport, thats precisely what it should be spent on. The idea that you don't have to spend all of it so as to have some left for non mobility purposes is just a kick in the neither regions for those working, paying tax and going with out... and before you say it, the number of working, disabled paying tax is a fraction of the able bodied working and paying their dues.
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Motabilty Volkswagan Touran 1.9TDI105 BMotionS 7st5dMP
Advance Payment £4546.00 plus total allowance
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lease rates from nationwide
Advance payment £699-95 plus £184-95 a month
Nationwide are pleased to offer a limited stock offer on the VW Touran 1.9 Tdi S Bluemotion. Lease rates now start from just £184.95 plus vat per month with an initial deposit of £699.95 plus vat. Please note this
who is subsidising who ???
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So you can get an allowance you don't have to spend all of it on the vehicle and there is some left over to be spent on something completely unrelated. Beggars belief frankly.
There are very few cars which don't use all the allowance, MrX, and even then we are only talking a few quid which would just about buy a gallon of fuel, which is probably what its spent on anyhow, i.e. getting around.
You know you really should get out more and find out what the real world is like... I'd suggest start by spending a week in a wheelchair...
HJ, I can't really see where you are coming from which your comments, I give to charities as well, does that make you feel better?!... And are you really suggesting that we just put disabled people on the streets and let them beg... thank heaven for the NHS and the British benefits system if thats what people have to suffer in Thailand...
Edited by b308 on 23/04/2009 at 17:42
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I know of 4 people with Mobility vehicles, not to talk to in depth but I know them well enough to know they do not use wheelchairs. Clearly that is not the criteria for being in receipt of the level of MA . One of them has a good job which is why I wonder about their ability to have a mobility subsidised vehicle.
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I know of 4 people with Mobility vehicles not to talk to in depth but I know them well enough to know they do not use wheelchairs.
Shock, horror! Not all disabled people need wheelchairs!
Your comment would be funny if it were not for the fact that you are being serious...
Disabilities come in all shapes and forms, MrX, some not always obvious to the casual observer!!
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Mr X
I find your views on this issue and related ones very sad. It is a pity that such a small minded person with twisted views on so much has to continually expound them at length on a forum such as this.
Regards
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He's trolling. Ignore him and he might go away.
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All opinions welcome except those you don't agree with. You can't get much more small minded than that.
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people like this on the streets of Thailand
Thank Heavens we don't live in Thailand then.
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>> people like this on the streets of Thailand Thank Heavens we don't live in Thailand then.
Try walking in a UK city, we have plenty of beggers not all idigenous, and many of them on benefits.
Edited by Old Navy on 23/04/2009 at 17:01
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