|
no there was no fatal and no life theatening although there was one airlifted
|
|
Blame culture. There must be some one to point the finger at.
|
|
Who do you blame for the blame culture ? :-)
|
|
Lawyers and Solicitors! Where there's blame they gain!! :)
|
|
|
|
i blame that bush im sure it looked at me as i drove past
thing is as mentioned a million times before
yes everything needs data ring
but to shut major roads that are the lifeblood of a local community is taking things too far
|
|
|
|
|
There were fatal or life threatening issues which needed proper investigation ..
That may be. But one can imagine 'proper investigation' taking days, or even weeks. However roads, especially in the Highlands, can be at least as essential as a 'p.i.'. A fair balance has to be found between investigating and reopening the road so that fewer travellers are inconvenienced. Sometimes it just gets a bit too autocratic.
|
Sometimes it just gets a bit too autocratic. i p[refer hydromatic but then im usually gone like greased lightening
|
|
|
Accident on the corner of our road this morning, road closed off and taped for a long time. I didn't see what happened but I was told by a visitor that a paramedic fast response car had gone through a brick wall into a storage compound and only the tailgate could be seen. He must have been going at a fair speed.
I hope all involved were ok. I expect my daughter, a paramedic, will know what happened.......I'll report back.
Ted
|
Should I go down this whole ' emergency services drivers think they are better than they are ' route.... ?
|
|
No. I assume it was a rhetorical question. Still no though ! :-)
Edited by Pugugly on 24/05/2009 at 01:06
|
|
Turning left at the next junction then.
|
|
Thanks. Sorry I edited my reply after you posted lest it sound snotty !
|
|
|
|
i find the middle pedal always the best solution
|
Given that it is highly unlikley that the emergency services sit plotting just how much chaos they can cause in between shifts, one would have to assume, if the roads closed, thats because it needs to be.
Those people who put the messages up on the matrix sign son motorways however, I suspect they might do :-)
|
One would have to assume, if the roads closed, thats because it needs to be.
I suspect that some 21st-century closures may be (or seem to be) longer than before, because due to the Blame culture, none of those immediately on the scene have enough authority to risk a decision before their boss arrives. Surely, unless an injured party is best left where it is, photos could be taken (as suggested below), witness details collected, then any damaged vehicles moved asap?
Edited by Andrew-T on 24/05/2009 at 10:34
|
|
|
|
Turning left at the next junction then.
Right, surely.
|
We had this argument in NZ a year or three back. The coroners were getting upset because the police were not giving them enough information to make a definitive ruling, so the police are now required to treat every crash as a formal crime scene, with all its forensic reconstructions etc.
An American company was here last year [ I think ] introducing a system whereby the scene can be photographed quickly from various angles, and computer software used to do the reconstructions from damage, skid marks, etc. Supposedly allows re-opening of the road in a short time, with the forensics being done in relative comfort back at the office.
|
|
|
The entire length of Fulham Palace Road was closed during the afternoon of Wednesday 20th May. Someone had been knocked over outside the offices I was in, actually opposite a hospital. But the nature of injury was such that they could not quickly be moved. So this was once circumstance where the reason for traffic paralysis in that part of London was one all of us can support.
HJ
|
|
Had up to six streets near the town centre sealed off for 5 hours on thurs . Police later said they were dealing with a ' domestic incident concerning a 50 yr old woman ". No fire arms involved but she had been claiming she was going to kill her self. Her address was actually a Close so they could just as easily closed off the top of the Close only.
|
>>No fire arms involved but she had been claiming she was going to kill her self. Her address was actually a Close so they could just as easily closed off the top of the Close only.
Unless of course she had turned on all the gas, the place smelt really strongly of the stuff and despite the fact you'd called out an emergency gas engineer who'd turned the supply off....no one wanted to be the first one through the door as she was tood there fiddling with her lighter.
Might seem far fetched...but i've dealt with one like that.....two very brave colleagues and a fireman climbed in a side window eventually, whilst someone else distracted her
|
Rather them than me!
I think the problem is that we never have all the info that made the Police close these roads, so what looks stupid to us could be very logical if we knew all the facts... hence we make assumptions and the police get a bad name...
The Press are really good at this, how many times have we all seen glaring headlines where someone has blamed the police/ambulance/fire brigade of doing something they shouldn't have only to find several weeks later that their action WAS justified and the person was being a little "economical" with the truth?!
I only hope with that prog from that other thread that the BBC aren't going to be "selective" with the facts on their programme... it wouldn't be the first time with them...
|
' and the person was being a little "economical" with the truth?!'.... now where have I read that before... think, think, think.
Thats right, the G20 summit . Some one fell down dead with out any contact ..erm, might have had contact...OK did have contact.
Truth goes both ways. Lucky we have a free press to dig out the facts eventually.
( Not motoring orientated but I can't let a statement like that go unchallenged. You not Jackie Smith per chance b308 ? )
|
Truth goes both ways. Lucky we have a free press to dig out the facts eventually.
Mr X,
I can assure you the 'facts' in their entirety have not yet been reported. I'm not going into detail on a motoring site. Keep an eye on the papers in about 4 months time, there'll be a small column on about p.15 if the past has anything to go by.
Edited by Westpig on 24/05/2009 at 12:57
|
Truth goes both ways. Lucky we have a free press to dig out the facts eventually. ( Not motoring orientated but I can't let a statement like that go unchallenged. You not Jackie Smith per chance b308 ? )
:-)
No chance!!
I agree that truth goes both ways, and I agree with a free press, but just as we are all sceptical on how information gathered by the Gov (such as ANPR) can be used I also take what I see in programmes like Watch Dog, and stories in this "free" press with a large pinch of salt, MrX. I used to work in a bank many years ago and WD ran stories about my bank where they had manipulated the facts to make up a story that was just not true... my colleagues at that branch got a lot of flack for things they had never done.
A free press is essential for a fair society, but it must also be accountable for its actions when it manipulates things for its own ends... in the main our press is not accountable unless the person they "finger" has a lot of money to sue them, us ordinary plebs have no chance.
Edited by b308 on 24/05/2009 at 13:01
|
The Press are really good at this how many times have we all seen glaring headlines where someone has blamed the police/ambulance/fire brigade of doing something they shouldn't have only to find several weeks later that their action WAS justified and the person was being a little "economical" with the truth?!
being 'economical with the truth' or 'only quoting the bits that are juicy' is a scourge in my view. The Daily Wail does it virtually daily and rabble rouses constantly. What really irritates is the BBC. We all pay for that, so they should be apolitical and 'straight down the line' with the news...not have some 'angle'. Some of these reporters are educated enough to know better, which is worse than some thicko that doesn't know any better.
End of rant....:-)
|
We never have all the info that made the Police close these roads ...
No, of course we don't. But I am fairly sure that we run up against more road closures than we used to (and for longer), and I don't think the amount of info we don't have has changed very much. It can only be due to insistence on more prolonged mandatory procedures - and we can debate the reasons for those.
|
The tactical response to any situation is informed by previous incidents that haven't gone well, so there's a reason for everything, Mr X!
Back on topic, I was involved in an accident a few weeks ago on the M3. Two car accident, thankfully my family were ok in the main, but the guy who hit us wasn't so lucky. Air Ambulance, fire brigade etc turned up. Now, I can honestly say that everyone worked as quickly and efficiently as possible. One lane was left open (bar the arrival and departure of the helicopter) and the Highways guys were getting the gawping drivers to move through as quickly as possible.
No consolation to those stuck for hours in the tailback, but I can honestly say that the whole business was resolved as quick as humanly possible.
|
Interestingly there were two incidents in the Midlands this morning - the M6 one involved 4 people killed due to a car travelling down the wrong way and the motorway was re-opened in 6 hours and the other was a 12 car pile up near Chesterfield, opened within 2 hours... Both re-opening quite quickly I feel.
My commiserations to the families of the M6 one, though...
|
|
May I correct you. I believe the North bound side was opened after 6 hours but the southbound remained closed for nearer 12
|
May I correct you.
Certainly can! I was quoting from the BBC report which said:
"Both carriageways were closed for the morning and into the afternoon but have since reopened. "
Which was on there at 1400, so I thought both carriageways had been opened.
Just checked the Birmingham Mail site:
"The stretch of the M6 shut after the accident re-opened shortly after mid-day, police said."
|
|
Is it to do with budgets? For example, the Police like to over-react at events and protests, because it is funded separately to ordinary Policing. So out will come the overtime, helicopter, mobile speed signs, camcorder team etc... all for nothing, yet get burgled and a civilian will just give you a crime number for your insurance company.
|
Is it to do with budgets? For example the Police like to over-react at events and protests because it is funded separately to ordinary Policing. So out will come the overtime helicopter mobile speed signs camcorder team etc... all for nothing yet get burgled and a civilian will just give you a crime number for your insurance company.
Nothing like talking utter codswallop to end the day!
|
been burgled and had car nicked, got some investigation for the burglary but only because i pretty much knew who'd done it (2 friends had also been burgled on same day), so police officer came around and took statements, went to other friends houses and took statements he eventually went to court pleded not guilty hoping noone would turn up for the retrial then we all did then got sent home cause he said guilty, no idea what sentence was though probably "don't do it again". When car got nicked, crime reference for insurance thats it.
I've no doubt if there'd been no clue who'd burgled us they'd of been little to no investigation.
|
Is it to do with budgets? For example the Police like to over-react at events and protests because it is funded separately to ordinary Policing. So out will come the overtime helicopter mobile speed signs camcorder team etc... all for nothing yet get burgled and a civilian will just give you a crime number for your insurance company.
A degree of informed opinion on an issue is always handy. That's what is missing here. I'd like to refer back to my comment on Mr X's views, namely that tactical options are informed by past experience (key word) of a similar events or incidents.....nuff said.
|
|
" The northbound carriageway was reopened to Bank Holiday drivers at midday - six hours after the crash - while the southbound side was reopened later on Sunday afternoon." PA Wire service.
|
|
Do you think that repairs to the road surface/crash barrier may have influenced re-opening times ?
|
|
Looking at the aerial pics, there doesn't appear to by any road surface damage.nor did the vehicles catch fire.
|
|
What aerial pics did you view this on?
|
What was originally suspected of being a fatal accident on the M74 yesterday is now being treated as possible murder.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8085...m
Someone from the police or whoever must have had enough knowledge and information to decide on this possibility and full marks to them if that turns out to be correct.
Would guess that this will now become subject of enquiries of all CCTV / ANPR cameras in area to try and identify.
[Mods may be worth locking this before it becomes the usual anti - police thread, just thought this article was very relevant to these discussions]
|
|
Happy to run it for now - but we'll be watching.
|
|
How would this be classed. RTA or RTC. Following debate on another thread.
|
|
I believe from news reports here that the RTA was initally treated as an accident by the police, but the usual closer investigation by traffic investigators at the scene highlighted more information, that is now being treated as murder. Certainly highlights the reason why police are rightly thorough at the scene of all fatal accidents
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
