HJ, you#ve posted twice that you have "evidence" that these bumps cause dangerous damage to tyres... so why don't you publish and be damned... i'm sure that if it were true the other motoring journos would held take up the fight...
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I hope to publish the evidence I have in my column, together with the photos, though that, of course, depends on my (excellent) editor. Now Wheels is quite right about driving one side over speed cushions, but persuading the public to do that could take some time when they find the most comfortable way is to straddle them. Whatever speed they are traversed, more strain is put on road springs, suspension components and the structure of the car than if they weren't there at all, and I get an average of 2 - 3 reports of broken springs every day, but that is less dangerous than hidden tears in the inner shoulders of front tyres that can lead to sudden unexpected deflation and potential loss of control. (Most springs seem to finally break first thing in the morning when they are at their coldest.)
HJ
Edited by Honestjohn on 10/07/2009 at 12:53
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I really think that some responsibility rests on the Highway Authorities who place these things to provide advice on safely negotiating them. I have seen nothing beyond denials that they could possibly cause damage. These Authorities also have a road safety responsibility and are quite happy to deliver lectures on all manner of things. I'd also like to see manufacturers pay more attention to this. They have long supplied modified suspensions for different markets around the world. Now that Britain's roads are in third world condition, deliberately and through neglect, it is time for this to be taken into account. As several people have pointed out, large diameter alloy wheels with ultra low profile tyres for instance are ludicrous for these conditions.
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I'm 'talking' about the speed reducing humps on the road where I live so obviously they may be nothing like any other hump in the this galaxy ...
The road in question has a 20 MPH limit and even that is too fast for these humps!
I 'hit' them at 10 MPH because I don't wish to do any damage whatsoever to my cars suspension or steering components.
I am often amazed at the speed that some merchants 'hit' them and I wonder if these are company cars that some poor clump of earth will buy as a 'one previous owner' job.
I am 100% pro speed reducing humps - until someone can come up with a better idea to slow down speedsters in built up areas.
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>>until someone can come up with a better idea
The cobbled streets typical in Northern mill towns worked very well in this regard.
I can't agree with (any of) Now heels views, and I would be happier to see driver education, and some degree of social unacceptability for speeding in urban areas being the tools of choice rather than enforcement and the apparatus of state being brought to bear.
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I can't agree with (any of) Now heels views and I would be happier to see driver education and some degree of social unacceptability for speeding in urban areas being the tools of choice rather than enforcement and the apparatus of state being brought to bear.
We've had many years of driver education, both in driving theory tests and in public education campaigns. But there's still a significant minority of drivers who go excessively fast on residential streets, so public education isn't enough.
Speed bumps don't look to me like enforcement: they are a form of prevention. Taken at a sensibly slow speed, they should be much gentler on a car than cobbles.
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>>We've had many years of driver education, both in driving theory tests and in public education campaigns
I can't admit to being a big fan of driving theory tests - they can't get anywhere near addressing the underlying issue, which is driver attitude.
Speed limits themselves don't help the situation, and even more the blind adherence enforced by cameras. They remove from the driver the need to constantly ask the only necessary question "Is this safe?".
>>But there's still a significant minority of drivers who go excessively fast on residential streets, so public education isn't enough.
If you accept that logic (I don't), speed humps aren't the answer either.
However, I think that trusting the motoring public is the only long term answer.
The villification of people who continued to drink and drive in the 80's can, with the help of education be applied to the situation of excessive urban speed.
The message is undermined by reducing speed limits in rural areas in a blanket fashion - it dilutes the message of the extra dangers in towns needing a slower limit.
Having said all of this, I don't see death on the road as such a red hot issue - of course it is to those personally involved - but, statistically, over the whole population, it's noise.
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Homicide is at an even lower level statistically, but who wishes to curtail police endeavours to catch the killers, and prevent criminality?
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NC as quite often has it more or less right. Proper policing and better education of young drivers are really the answer. Public opinion already disapproves of reckless or offensive driving, just as it disapproves of people driving when they are affected by drink or drugs. Enthusiastic drivers inclined to defy silly speed limits disapprove of these things even more strongly than the respectable mass of drivers.
But public opinion in this area is a bit of a two-edged weapon. It has a tendency to overreact by imagining that the promotion of universal slug-like crawling suited to 'driving by numbers' is the way to curb the minority of reckless or psychopathic, usually young, drivers. It's the same mentality that thinks damaging the roads and people's cars will make everything slow but safe.
Of course to anyone who understands anything of this, that sort of reasoning seems contemptible. I doubt if a meeting of minds is really possible.
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(edit, too slow to get in last post): Should we learn from the remote African boondocks, where it is not unknown for drivers who have crashed their vehicles to be beaten up or even killed by locals, even when no other vehicle is involved and no one has been hurt (yet)? Perhaps some forms of overreaction are, on reflection, preferable to others...
:o}
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While that's perhaps a bit harsh, the idea that there is some serious consequence is heading the right direction.
In a way, it's a bit surprising that insurers aren't pushing in this direction. If you knew that your insurance would go through the roof if you had a crash, then, you would go a bit steadier.
Is it the case that insurers aren't in some way meeting the full cost of the accidents of their clients, and thus don't feel the need to penalise bad drivers?
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But, the measures taken to investigate these violent crimes do not affect most people for most of the time, while speed bumps, and silly speed limits hinder everyone consistently.
If the endeavours to catch the killers and prevent this type of criminality caused as much hindrance as the anti-speed measures, then, I would wish to curtail them. At some point, a balance must be struck.
Edited by Number_Cruncher on 10/07/2009 at 17:06
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Another reason to get rid of them:
"What produces more CO2? UK Speed bumps or Fiji?"
tinyurl.com/ljf5hh
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You may say speed curbs hinder. Others say they protect.
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the underlying issue which is driver attitude.
I agree, which is why I would like to see the introduction of a test for psychological compatibility with driving.
Edited by L'escargot on 11/07/2009 at 08:34
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For 30,000,000 drivers, L'escargot? Are you personally willing to finance this?
HJ
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I am sure most people know but my Corsa had needed three new springs in around 800 miles. It passed the MOT in March (two weeks before I bought the car) and there was no symptons at all of a damaged spring. However I am now suspecting my rear one was cracked all along but my front ones snapped in my ownership. Near me it is not just speed bumps it is all the random pot holes.
My dads done more than 20k in his £850 (two years ago) Fiesta now. Nothing has gone with the engine at all other than a split vac hose I replaced and needing a new theromstat and battery. Apart from needing new brake pipes and pads last year every single time its now in a garage is because of suspension work. The springs and shocks are fine but the control arms, wishbones, bushes etc have all had to be replaced. I suspect its all the pot holes which stress things like the wishbones and bushes. I suspect it will fail the MOT on top mount bushes and these are still be replaced.
However on the four Fords we have owned since 2002 (one Escort, three Fiestas) not one spring has ever broken. I buy a Vauxhall and it now seems like springs are a rountine service item. My car now has four brand new springs and I suspect one my snap while I own the car. I always slow down for bumps etc. I suspect there must be a design fault which puts too much stress on the springs. Unless the existing springs were all original and just happened to be poor quality.
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I am sure most people know but my Corsa had needed three new springs in around 800 miles.
Not quite true, Rattle, it might of passed its MOT 800 miles before but that didn't mean that the springs were already shot, but not broken at that time, so it passed... its an old car and has had a lot of use (town driving from what you've said which is probably the worst other than offroading for springs) so I'd expect replacement of suspension bits, just like on your Dads car... Only thing you can do to reduce wear (which is what it is) is be as observent as possible and either avoid the potholes/humps or take them at an appropriate speed.
NC, you weren't serious re cobbles, surely? They are noisy (both for those in the cars and those living next to them) and in the wet are lethal at any speed! (And its a real pain in the bum trying to push a wheelchair over them!!).
HJ, look forward to your article!!
Edited by b308 on 13/07/2009 at 08:43
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(town driving from what you've said which is probably the worst other than offroading for springs)
Not in our neck of the woods. There's a stretch of the A1031 near us which is so badly patched that, traffic permitting, I drive in the middle of the road to help preserve my car's suspension.
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>>NC, you weren't serious re cobbles, surely?
No, it was more of a throwaway comment, in that it's funny to think that the cobbles were covered over with tarmac in the 60s and 70s, and now, on top of the tarmac, the coucil is busy adding surface features to slow the traffic!
Cobbles are excellent for road testing for rattles and squeaks though, you can get all the suspension moving and the body flexing at low speeds, just a newly surfaced, but not chipped road is ideal for listening for wheel bearing noise.
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For 30 000 000 drivers L'escargot?
Obviously it couldn't be done retrospectively, but it could be added to the driving test for the future.
Are you personally willing to finance this?
:-D
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