I lived in the days of electric milk carts, and also had a mate who was deaf. Neither of us were ever hit by a vehicle - because we were taught to look AND listen. OK, the was back in the old days when traffic levels were not as they are nowadays. But no way would I let a 5 year old cross the road unattended.
When I was at primary, the police used to come every year and stage a demo in the school playground. We had to line up as a squad car ( A Jag!) came (to us) screaming round the corner and a polisman would throw a dummy into its path to show how long it took for the car to stop. And the message we repeated till we were blue in the face was "Never forget to do your kerb drill".
50 years on and I still do it!
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I lived in the days of electric milk carts ........... Neither of us were ever hit by a vehicle - because we were taught to look AND listen.
In my younger days there were few cars, but thousands of silent bicycles ~ mostly being ridden close to the kerb. Consequently we were just as much at risk, but we survived because we too were taught "kerb drill".
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Those milk carts, whilst being electric, were hardly silent, though, were they!!
I'd agree with the others that the introduction of more and more electric vehicles is going to cause a problem in the future though. The only viable solution that I can see is the seperation of traffic from pedestrians in busy built up areas, ie more pedestrian zones... no bad thing tbh.
Or you could do what the railways do and paint the front yellow and have a high intensity light blazing!
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...... the separation of traffic from pedestrians in busy built up areas ie more pedestrian zones...
And there should be a campaign to crack down on cyclists who cycle on pavements and through pedestrian zones. Having a cyclist collide with you can cause serious injury. Many years ago an elderly neighbour was hit by a cyclist riding on the pavement as she walked out of her drive. She suffered a broken hip, and subsequently gangrene set in from which she died. The cyclist got off scot-free.
Edited by L'escargot on 28/08/2009 at 10:11
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I my opinion, this should never have been allowed. (electric cars making no noise). 5 year olds should probably not cross the road alone, but older people also sometimes walk out without looking, and at the end of the day, mistakes happen.
It would be ludicrously cheap and easy to put a small speaker of these cars playing white noise, such as that you hear from an aerosol spray. This noise is highly directional and perfect for the human ear due to our evolved honed ability to hear and pinpoint snapped twigs in forests and such like.
It wouldn't need to be loud at all.
Edited by Hamsafar on 28/08/2009 at 10:10
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This could have been much worse.
TNT are now using electric power in some of it's 7.5 tonne wagons. A friend and I were chatting on a pavement and only became aware of the vehicle which had pulled up when we heard the cab door shut. Looking round we wondered how a bright orange wagon had crept up us, then we saw the signs advertising the fact it was electric.
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L'escargot - I do understand the problems of cyclists on pavements.
The opposite does happen ! As a cyclist I often get pedestrians step of the pavement without a glance behind them.
When I had my mid-engined MGF - which was very quiet - I also had the problem that pedestrians used only their hearing before stepping into the road.
I have to add that I'm very much in favour of quiet vehicles - the quieter the better.
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>50 years on and I still do it!
what? throw dummies in front of patrol cars? can we come and watch?
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So what's the suggestion? A PA system with recorded engine noises?
Sounds like a good marketing opportunity:-
option 1 : Big V8 rumble
option 2 : Ferrari flat 12 at redline
option 3 : favourite F1 grand prix car
etc.
edit : and as a 'trainspotter' I'd have :-
option 4 : Deltic going full bore
Edited by SpamCan61 {P} on 28/08/2009 at 11:50
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In pedestrian areas all drivers should be reminded to drive two-footed
Sorry, HJ. You may be able to, but I suspect that most drivers are mentally unable to switch from manual to auto in a sudden emergency. This has been discussed before, I think.
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Glad the little girl wasn't seriously hurt but here's the problem
Most children have all the road sense of a hedgehog
Mummy and Daddy drive them everywhere
Teenagers, cyclists wired up to Ipods blissfully unaware but they have right of way so they really don't care. They don't know what the little red man means at a set of traffic lights either. So you lose your three car green light window.
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We have two Prius and two Honda Hybrid living very close to us. My neighbour's son has one of the Prius's and it's quite eerie to be in our front garden minding my own business to look up and his car has pulled up without a sound. When it pulls away, all you hear is the creaking of the tyres.
These cars must instill a very calm approach to driving, at least when they are running on leccy. Perhaps less so when you see them doing 80+ on the motorway. My neighbour's son has a van for work and he drives like white van man at the wheel of it.
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So what's the suggestion?
A piece of cardboard touching the spokes of the wheels ;o)
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And there should be a campaign to crack down on cyclists who cycle on pavements >>
Absolutely agree. I'd just left the DIY store the other day all prepared for an afternoon of innocent tasks when suddenly thought I might not have got the right things.
I was standing on the pavement looking into my carrier bag when I became aware of a pathetic little whistle as the whistler, first in a line of four youths on bikes on the pavement, just avoided running me over.
I suppose he was whistling because he hadn't a bell. Gimme strength! Woss wrong with having a bell, then?
And another thing, as Victor Meldrew used to say, why do cyclists always appear to be trying to travel at maximum speed?
Heigh ho.
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If you needed a loud whining noise I suppose you could always record some Aussies talking about the Ashes.....
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I understood, or read somewhere, or maybe I just dreamed it, that future pedestrian safety legislation for hybrid / electric cars would include white noise generators while running in silent but deadly mode.
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If you needed a loud whining noise I suppose you could always record some Aussies talking about the Ashes.....
"the umpires were cheats" "the pitch was doctored" and "your team is South Africa in disguise" would get a bit annoying after a while.
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So what's the suggestion?
We've already heard plans to give silent electric cars an artificial car noise.
They don't have to do it all the time though. A sensor could tell them whether some hazard - pedestrian, cyclist, other car - was liable to cross their path and trigger the noise. The rest of the time peace could reign.
Drivers could be given a choice of sounds though. A dial with '1,000 hp Porsche 917 getting violent wheelspin on wet track', 'Multiple axe murder in progress', 'The most tuneless Muezzin in Algiers', 'Phantom jet fighter passing close overhead at Mach 1.2'... the choice is endless, as with mobile ringtones.
Urban rush hours would be an aural feast.
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Or a 3000hp top fuel dragster doing a smoky burnout.
Or for Peter Kaye fans - did the dodgy car alarm perimeter system announce "Push off or I'll break your legs"
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Pardon me for taking the simplistic view, but might the solution be to educate pedestrians to look both ways before crossing roads?
I appreciate that at five years old, the little girl in this story shouldn't have been on her ownsome anyway, but long term surely this is a better answer than more noise pollution.
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Maybe the boy racers were right all along. The solution to this problem is for everybody to have a 2000 watt hi-fi system booming around in the car. Not only will you hear the impending danger, you'll feel it coming as well.
Edited by Armstrong Sid on 28/08/2009 at 20:42
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Were taught to use our eyes and ears to detect approaching traffic. But primarily we should use our eyes. Bicycles are usually more or less silent and being hit by a cycle can cause death or serious injury. There are high-performance electric 'motorcycles' coming on the market. Then we really will need to keep our eyes doubly peeled, since at present most maniac bikers ride machines with a very effective audible warning, a screaming exhaust!
Edited by Sofa Spud on 28/08/2009 at 22:34
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Its the same old thing though isn't it - you solve one problem and create another. In this case it being that we now have these silent environmentally friendly vehicles appearing on the scene that suddenly pose a danger to other road users because they don't make any noise. Whether you like it or not we rely on our ears and hearing to tell us what is going on around without actually needing to see it. Thats the way it is and the way it has been for a long time particularly where traffic and vehicles have been concerned. I think it will take a long while to re-educate everyone and in the meantime I'm sure that accidents will occur because of this silence.
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Walk my dog on the narrow, twisty clifftop. footpathless lane on which I live and rely very much on being able to hear traffic coming in either direction so as I can to pinion the two of us against the hedgebank as they pass. "Dayglo" jacket is a must at night but nevertheless this thread has made me think. And before anyone mentions it, the options for walking the dog late at night anywhere else still involve walking a section of the lane first.
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"Dayglo" jacket is a must at night but nevertheless this thread has made me think.>>
Many people walking after dark on country lanes in my area wear flashing cycle lights front and back.
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As all attempts to re-teach the Green Cross Code, Jon Pertwee doing "Splink!" and anything else school-based are doomed to failure from the outset, the solution seems to lie somewhere between these two extremes:
1. Make electric vehicles nice and loud: (e.g. tinyurl.com/ypx8uo)
2. Re-enact the Red Flag Act immediately.
Alternatively, paint all Priuses bright fluorescent green to allow owners to show off their green credentials even more.
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This isn't a new problem. Electric trolley buses back in the 1930's were nicknamed 'whispering death' for a reason.
We all use our ears as well as our eyes for locating cars when crossing roads. Often when crossing my daughter across the road I'll check it's clear, then just before crossing I'll have to stop because I've heard a car approaching that's not actually in view yet.
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a friend has a set of two tone train horns on his truck. beep, boop.
he was sat in traffic behind someone who had stopped on a level crossing. one quick beepboop and she nearly shot off into the car infront. i know it was irresponsible BUT she shouldn't have stopped there.
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There's some YouTube stufff on that modification (US Style)
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Neighbours have a pair of Priuses and it's awful easy in aquiet cul de sac to step in front of them while on and off the road doing domestic stuff like grass mowing or bin shifting. Engine cuts out/in about as they round the corner 25yards away.
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As there is likely to be a growth in the numbers of electric and hybrid cars on the roads, the Highway Code should be amended to remind people that electric vehicles make very little noise and so can take you by surprise.
Also, electric vehicles could be fitted with an additional quieter horn or other audible warning the driver can sound when a full blast on the normal horn would be inappropriate.
I remember travelling on a battery powered bus at Hinckley Point nuclear power station some years ago. It was just used within the site to ferry visitors between the reception area and the power station and it had a bleeper thet sounded before it moved off, a bit like the bleeper used on trains to warn that the doors are about to shut.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 29/08/2009 at 11:43
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Electric trolley buses back in the 1930's ..........
I remember them in Sheffield in the late 1950s.
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And London into the early 60's, The 630 route through Mitcham (my local route as a youngster) ran untill 1960, and was replaced by the Routemaster. The last trolley bus in London ran in 1962 I believe. Trams, trolley busses, diesel busses, and now trams again, are we going round in circles? I will probably see trams on the streets of Edinburgh but be long dead before trolley busses return, as they will if the cycle continues.
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I think we had them in Manchester until 68 on the routes to Ashton under Lyne. I think the ones in London with the headlight in the middle were nicknamed the 'Diddlers'...or was that something else ?
Ted
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