good review.
Thanks for the review.
however I do have a couple of reservations.
The next Ford Focus is due out next year and the engine range will start with a 1.0L turbo in two power forms (89bhp and 109bhp).
They will even provide a 1.6L Turbo at 168bhp.
This is taken from other web sites (so I am not sure if this is hype or true).
Link
www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/234878/...n
.html
{link to one of our rival sites made non clickable, unfortunately I can't do anything about the word wrapping}
I feel this is a missed opportunity for Vauxhall witch is a great shame.
They could cater to the insurance concious drivers (younger drivers for example).
As for the styling, If you like the Insignia then I think you like the new Astra (shame I don't though).
The price could be a bit off putting but then I expect a similar price band for the next Focus.
Otherwise a promising car that Vauxhall desperately needs right now.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 08/10/2009 at 02:25
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HJ, does this Astra have a temperature gauge, or are Vauxhall still using a warning light?
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>>As for the styling, If you like the Insignia then I think you like the new Astra (shame I don't though).>>
I dont particularly like the Insignia though in the pics the Astra looks better and as small cars become medium and medium cars become large it is the kind of car that might appeal.
Having a larger boot than a Golf could make a lot of difference.
HJ does this Astra have a temperature gauge or are Vauxhall still using a warning light?
Good question, dont like the lack of a gauge, I have fitted a gauge to my motorcycle that only had a light.
Interesting that HJ refers to the current facelifted MK II Focus as a Mk III Focus. This will cause a lot of confusion on this site when the Mk III is launched next year. HJ nearly took a similar tack when the Mk IV Mondeo was launched (he called it a Mk III IIRC) until I and one or two other persuaded him otherwise. I reckon this also needs addressing.
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To be honest, it does nothing for me style wise - especially the full frontal, I much prefer my metallic black Almera ... yeah, yeah it holds the road well & it has some fancy rear suspension but - to me its just another eurobox - gimme a QQ or a Megane anyday!
Honest Ray.
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It was supposed to be an Exclusiv and an Exclusiv 1.4 turbo is listed in the price list at the quite reasonable £17,290, before discounts.
However, between the price list and the press kit, the S and the Exclusiv seem to have been transposed. There was a bot of confusion about this.
Obviously, whether S or Exclusiv, our car had the optional 17" alloys.
But it still only had a plastic steering wheel so was definitely either an S or an Exclusiv.
Too busy composing and shooting a video while driving the route (in the rain) to notice if it had a temp gauge.
(If Cheddar argues that the facelift 2006 Mondeo is a Mk II, making the 2000 car the Mk III and the 2007 car the Mk IV, then surely the facelift of the Mk II Focus is substantial enough to make it the Mk III, by Cheddar's own reasoning, which I followed.)
HJ
Edited by Honestjohn on 08/10/2009 at 09:35
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(If Cheddar argues that the facelift 2006 Mondeo is a Mk II making the 2000 car the Mk III and the 2007 car the Mk IV then surely the facelift of the Mk II Focus is substantial enough to make it the Mk III by Cheddar's own reasoning which I followed.) HJ
HJ,
It is not a matter of my own reasoning or even any logic, rather the terminology that Ford and the broader industry have adopted. In that regard the facelifted Mk I Mondeo was called a Mk II though the facelifted Mk II Focus is not called Mk III hence the 2010 Focus will be the Mk III.
Regards.
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This is style in my humble reckoning ~ www.renault.co.uk/cars/model/newmeganecoupe/produc...x
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This is style in my humble reckoning ~ www.renault.co.uk/cars/model/newmeganecoupe/produc...x
So stylish in fact that it doesn't work! (The website that is - quarter of a picture of a car and lots of rapidly flickering menus when I move the mouse pointer over it.)
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Surely a major omission is no vehicle under the magic 121g CO2/km? I would have
thought the low powered 1.7 diesel with skinny tyres & thin g/box oil could have managed that?
Also, still the same obsession it seems with low profile tyres on anything other than lowest spec. cars. Even though HJ says the ride ok on 17s - how much more compliant would 55-60 profile tyres be with the revised Watts-is-name suspension be one wonders?
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HJ does this Astra have a temperature gauge or are Vauxhall still using a warning light?
>>
The images i've seen show 2 smaller gauges inbetween speedo and revcounter - so i'd guess one is a temp gauge.
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As for the styling If you like the Insignia then I think you like the new Astra (shame I don't though).
Looks quite similar to our old Leon 2 in the exterior shots.
I reckon the current Focus is still the mk2, or a mk2.5 if you like. Whole number changes should be reserved for different basic shapes.
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I very much like the new Astra looks-wise, but I am also a fan of the Insignia which I think is one of the most elegant, understated and (I hate this word, but) classy looking mainstream cars in years. We have some SRIs on the fleet now in black, and they look very nice indeed. The build quality seems to be superb as well, in terms of flawless fit and finish inside, nice even panel gaps, and a deep, lustrous paint finish. If the Astra is more of the same, I hope it succeeds. I would seriously look at one.
I was surprised at the compound crank suspension arrangement. ISTRC the mk2 Astra had this as well, and was universally slated for its handling, with the setup being blamed for the snap lift-off oversteer these cars exhibited, particularly on the higher powered GTE models. I guess application is more important than principle. I don't doubt the Astra would be a decent handling car. It would be commercial suicide if Vauxhall hadn't benchmarked a Focus when they were setting the car up. The Insignia I am told is every bit as good as a Mondeo on the road, and that's from people who've covered extensive miles in both cars.
I would love to see the GTE badge return now, with a fireball engine under the bonnet and a nice lairy bodykit. Takes me back..... aaahh.... :-)
I like that Megane coupe, too. Seen a few on the road and they are very pretty, as is the Laguna coupe. Renaults have always looked good though IMHO.
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There will be super economical, super low CO2 Eco versions, and VXR versions eventually. Meanwhile you can option blingy 19" wheels on the 1.6 180 Turbo.
Actually I think there is something brewing over the CO2 testing regime where stripped-out cars with taped up bonnets and various other tricks have been used to achieve ultra low CO2 figures. This could even be regarded as Tax Evasion rather than Tax Avoidance.
Take Cheddar's point about the Mks.
At the factory, Vauxhall use Mks for the Astras rather than the letter denominations used by enthusiasts (and maybe Opel). They call this one the Mk VI.
HJ
Edited by Honestjohn on 08/10/2009 at 12:34
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There will be super economical super low CO2 Eco versions and VXR versions eventually.
I can understand the wait for the VXR version, but why do we have to wait for the Eco versions? Isn't there any demand for them?
I think there is something brewing over the CO2 testing regime where stripped-out cars with taped up bonnets and various other tricks have been used to achieve ultra low CO2 figures.
Hmm, that might explain why certain manufacturers are achieving incredible figures that nobody else can get near to...
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Re: Temperature Gauge.
Looking at a picture downloaded from the Vauxhall website, I see that there are two smaller dials between the large speedo & rev counter dials. The one on the left is a temperature gauge - but the picture doesn't state which model this is - so it may be top-of-the-range only.
I wonder if the view out of the back is poor, as par for the course with most moder cars?
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Try this:
tinyurl.com/y8cdqe6
Looks very much like a temp gauge to me.
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Looks very much like a temp gauge to me.
It does!
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Take Cheddar's point about the Mks.
Focus (appropriately!) suggests calling the facelift Mk IIs Mk 2.5, changing Mk III to Mk 2.5 could be away of getting around having to combine car-by-car info etc allowing the actual Mk III its rightful place when it comes along next year.
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We'll have to do something like that, then. Maybe Mk II/2 or Mk II/fl (facelift).
HJ
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Side view looks like every other car of its type - Renault Megane, Citroen C4, etc, etc, etc.
Am I alone in finding it a bit odd that cars that now have automatic everything and endless pointless electronic gizmos can lack something as basic as a temperature gauge? Then people wonder why their cars suddenly explode at 25k miles.
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So how common is it that cars do not have a temp gauge anymore ?
My Rio does not have a temp gauge but that's not a new idea (this shape does not have a temp gauge), more of a case of you pay peanuts for the car - you get the bare essentials !
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My old BX from 1987 was the first car I had without a temp gauge.
It was a bit of a problem, because when the head gasket went, I had about 2 seconds between the temp warning light coming on and steam pouring out from under the bonnet! With a proper gauge I would have seen the temp creeping up all the time and known I had a problem much earlier...
Happily on my current C5 there is not only a coolant temp gauge, but also an oil temp gauge.
I have to say this is quite handy, as I can tell when the engine is properly warmed up (seems to be about 5 mins after the coolant temp reaches normal levels) and can then give it some welly without worrying about running high revs on a cold engine.
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Our old 1994 Peugeot 106 XSi had a dual function gauge which registered oil level at ignition on, then after 5 seconds or so of running, would switch to an oil temperature gauge. My phase 2 306 XSi had an oil level gauge, but this performed no function at all once the engine was running. Earlier phase 1 versions had oil pressure monitoring built into this gauge.
I remember my old Cavalier mk2 SRi had a full complement of gauges (fuel, temperature, oil pressure and battery voltage), but the "facelift" which mine fell just before, deleted the latter two and replaced them with the standard warning lights. It seems to be a trend not only for manufacturers to reduce monitoring by gauges, but to delete / reduce them as they develop a model.
Oil pressure gauges are extremely useful things, as they also indicate oil temperature. As the oil warms and thins, the pressure will drop back slightly. With familarity, you can use this to ascertain when the oil has reached a useful operating temperature. My old Cavalier would indicate approximately 2/3 of the way up at idle on a stone cold engine, but this would drop to about 1/4 of the way up once the oil was hot.
Gauges are great as they indicate a worrying trend long before it becomes too serious or even terminal. I remember on the old Cavalier, I was queueing to get into an airshow and, unbeknown to me at the time, the thermoswitch for the radiator fan had failed. The temperature went above its normal 2/3 mark as the fan failed to kick in, and swiftly headed for the red. I was able to switch off long before the head gasket came under threat. New switch fitted next day, and normal service resumed without any engine damage. That could have been hugely expensive.
Cheers
DP
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I would never buy a car without a temperature guage. The guages tell me my engine is working correctly, temperatue gauge and rev counter. Also with a temp gauge you know your car is not overcooling too.
It does cause panic when stuck in traffic though and I see the temperature rising but the fan soon sorts that out :).
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Our Zafira B doesn't have a temp gauge, but you can at least use a "secret" diagnostic mode on the display screen which reveals stuff like coolant temperature, engine revs and road speed (digitally in km/h, not 5% adjusted downwards like the speedo too), bus faults and all kinds of fun, but mostly useless stuff!
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For most people, even most Luddite backroomers, the temperature is far better monitored by the car's computer, and brought to their attention if there's a problem.
The computer samples many times per second, as opposed to the human checking the gauge when they can be bothered to.
There's no reason not to include overcooling in the warning system, although I don't think it is currently implemented.
Would the last Luddite to leave the backroom please blow out the candle?
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Normally I would agree with you NC, however, see my post above:
"I had about 2 seconds between the temp warning light coming on and steam pouring out from under the bonnet!"
Plus, in terms of mechanical sympathy, isn't it helpful to have some kind of temp gauge display to determine how long to hold back before stretching the right ankle?
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Really NC, sometimes you almost make me wish I was a Luddite.
'Don't worry your silly little heads about the coolant temperature or oil temperature or oil pressure. The computer is far more sensitive and intelligent than you are and will tell you clearly and in good time exactly what any problem is so that you can deal with it with minimum fuss and expense.'
In a sodding pig's ear it will.
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I'm definately with NC on this one.
I happily drive without one (a temp dial) safe in the knowledge that a light will come on.
The engineers programmed the light to come on when the temperature has gone outside an acceptable limit, if not, its okay.
Not having a gauge simplifies the instrument binacle to glance at, and 95% of people dont know how to interpret a dial any way.
Sure, they know red==danger==wrong therfore somethings up, but when the needle hovers over the red zone on a dial is probably when a temperature light would be programmed to illuminate anyway.
I also have a 28 year old car with a temperature gauge and on that car its a very useful diagnostic tool in terms of diagnosing timing, weak fuel mixture, thermostat etc - on a modern car, simply, no.
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>>>The computer is far more sensitive and intelligent than you are<<<
Personally speaking, I'd like both temp gauge & computer warning ... having just driven for 90 miles around the best part of Cornwall = Penzance, St. I'ves, Pendeen, Porth Kernow - I probably only glanced at the gauges once or twice but ... coming from a long line of GT XLR's I do like my gauges, whether I use them or nay.
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I too like gauges, and probably not have a car without them.
I want to know how cold the temp is so that I can take it easy before opening up the taps
I want to know that the engine is maintaining a steady temperature
I want to know that the fan has cooled the temp when sat in traffic.
I want to know that the engine temp is increasing and not cooling so I can at least shut the engine off before it gets too serious
I want to know that the engine is overcooled so I can resolve that issue
I don?t want just a light telling me the water temp is too hot when its too late
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I'm with redviper and while we're at it can I have my oil pressure and temp gauges back so I know when I can floor it and when to lift off. :-)
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can I have my oil pressure and temp gauges back
Computer says no...
:o}
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;-))
I acknowledge that computers are very good at analysing and telling you what WENT wrong, often as the steam and smoke is still pouring from under the bonnet...
I sometimes think I'll go wall-eyed driving the Beast and trying to watch the temp and oil pressure while watching where I'm going as well, but I'd rather have it that way, thank you.
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For most people even most Luddite backroomers the temperature is far better monitored by the car's computer and brought to their attention if there's a problem. The computer samples many times per second as opposed to the human checking the gauge when they can be bothered to.
NC, thats not like you, it doesnt make sense.
As has been said it is a matter of knowing when the engine is warm, not just when it is too hot.
And just because there is a gauge it does not mean that the ECU is not monitoring/adjusting etc.
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I am usually with NC when it comes to swatting those pesky luddite types...
however
Not this time. He has it completely wrong.
The computer may sample the temp many billions of times, but it will only blink on at a set panic level. The computer wont tell me of trends, it wont tell me its cold, it wont tell me its creeping slowly over the norm where as it didnt a month ago.
In short, the panic light is a waste of timne and space. Give me a dial *every* time
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No 'panic lights' for me ta. I currently have an issue with a faulty rad fan or switch. How do I know? Because the guage is waving at me. As it is colder now I can control the temp until I get to a garage by expedient use of the heater. Not really an option if all I have is a light saying 'too hot, too hot, turn me off now!'
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I would like to see a return of oil peasure gauges too, although I suspect they would also cause some paranoia.
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....and a proper sump level indicator - Dipsticks - so last century
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Like I always say during this sort of discussion I quite fancy a 'glass cockpit' so I can choose what information is displayed and how it is displayed. Manufacturers could sell add on 'Themes' for those who want 'full 7 dial sports instrumentation ' as the brochures used to say or just a big red light meaning 'stop driving NOW' Given the prices of appropriate size computer displays these days I don't think it would be that expensive.
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It would be very cheap but in air craft they tend to be fail safe e.g most important instrunments backed up via another LCD screen or analogue displays. In a car I am not sure how long they would last.
It is a very good idea though, you could do away with the speedo (if you're an OAP living in the Notting Hill area) and replace it with a live data stream about what the pistons exact movements are.
Sorry sir I have just crashed into you, I got distracted I got distracted by the computer telling me I have a stuck valve.
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fancy a 'glass cockpit' so I can choose
Manufacturers could sell add on ... 'full 7 dial sports instrumentation '
They do of course. Not car makers, instrument makers. We have seen that some barryboys like a cockpit like the one in a jumbo jet.
But people who sometimes go seriously fast in seriously tweaked cars don't have these things for ornament. They tell a driver what he needs to know. Of course to a mere car user they are more or less redundant.
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Like I always say during this sort of discussion I quite fancy a 'glass cockpit' so I can choose what information is displayed and how it is displayed. Given the prices of appropriate size computer displays these days I don't think it would be that expensive.
Citroen C4 Picassos & Renault Scenics have digital displays where you delete some of the information, as do some other cars (Saabs?). I think it goes under the guise of night display where only the essential is shown, with warning lights coming on as and when necessary.
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my new c3 picasso has a night time function that just shows speed.
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AlastairW, I would imagine (though not ideal), you would hear the radiator fan on when you stopped that would not turn off after 30 seconds.
I did have a car once where the radiator switch stuck on and the fan wouldn't turn off (even without the keys in the ignition).
The joy of a 1979 Fiat 127......
a quick bit of wiring and a switch soon sorted that problem out until I brought a new radiator switch two days later.
Edited by diddy1234 on 08/10/2009 at 23:06
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No doubt millions have been spent perfecting the suspension, styling and comfort on the new Astra, and here's us talking about the temp gauge of all things!
:)
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For all the backroomers who seemingly "need" a gauge to tell them that the engine is cold, here are a few tips;
1) If it's first thing in the morning, when you go out to the car, the engine is cold
2) If you haven't driven the car for a few hours, you can assume the engine is cold
3) If the heater is still blowing cold air at you, the engine is cold
4) After you've driven for a few miles, the engine will be warming up nicely
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Here's a few tips from the real world: ;)
1) yes, but how long does it remain cold for?
2) see #1, plus it depends on just how long the car has sat for...
3) What about in summer? Do I need to blow warm air from the vents to check the engine is warm...
4) see #1, again...
Just how long it takes to warm up can even vary from journey to journey. I remember my over-cooled Astra 2.0 DTi, that could take a good 15mins of driving to warm up properly on an open road in the winter, but around town in the summer it only took 5-10 mins.
How do I know this? Why, I used the temperature gauge...
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So you use your car's engine temperature guage to tell you whether it is summer or winter? That's a novel use for it! ;-)
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So you use your car's engine temperature guage to tell you whether it is summer or winter?
Given the random weather we get these days, that's probably a reliable indicator as any...
:)
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How do I know this? Why I used the temperature gauge...
Yes. My Astra G was so over cooled, in winter would take a good 15 min for it to even to reach normal operating temp. summer wasn?t to bad it would take 5 ? 10 Min
Again I only new this because I had a gauge to tell me so but even then it would only sit just over the ?cold area? in winter, and in the summer sit under the halfway mark at 80c,
Put the heaters on and the gauge used to plummet back into the blue zone again. ? however in summer it was ok
thankfully the Vectra warms up a lot faster and the gauge sits right in the middle. At a steady 90c
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On most cars, if the heater isnt blowing hot then the engines not warm - no dial required.
Surely in winter when you're most likely to have the heater on, you'd be acutely aware of engines said lack of warmth anyway?
Why does it matter what time of year it is? Particularly as cars sold in the UK are designed to operate here regardless of ambient temperature - its not as we have a particularly extreme climate anyway.
As a kid I remember seeing hoards of cars on the M5 boiling over on the hard shoulder. You just dont get that any more - we've been there as car drivers and we're not going back - and as a consumer, if I cant just jump in a car and drive whatever is going on under the bonnet, then I'm not interested.
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On most cars if the heater isnt blowing hot then the engines not warm - no dial required. Surely in winter when you're most likely to have the heater on you'd be acutely aware of engines said lack of warmth anyway?
Surely you're aware that engines start cold in the summer too, when you don't have your heater on? Plus, some diesel cars have auxiliary heaters (akin to an integrated fan heater!) because of the long warm up times on the engine. So the warmth of air from the vents doesn't really tell you anything...
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No doubt millions have been spent perfecting the suspension styling and comfort on the new Astra and here's us talking about the temp gauge of all things! :)
It's true! I am not sure if there is a temp gauge either, but have a look at www.torqueastra.com perhaps this site could be helpful if we want to know the nitty-gritty along with the rest. It has load of pics too so you can have a look at the car from all angles if, like me, you've never seen it in the flesh.
Edited by a_fan on 22/10/2009 at 18:42
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