I have a new BWM on order which was due w/c 23 November (i.e. this week). Dealer emailed me to say that "production has slipped slightly" and estimated delivery is now 14 December.
Is this normal? BTW, I did secure a very big discount on the order so I'm starting to wonder whether this is the dealer's way of getting me to back out of the order altogether.
I'm also a bit concerned about any further slippage meaning VAT payable at 17.5% instead of 15%.
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If my experience is anything to go by I'd say its unusual. Ordered a 3 series diesel M sport in August, built Sept and shipped to the UK in October.
What have you ordered?
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What have you ordered?
330d Coupe. It's a manual (really don't like autos) whereas the vast majority are autos so that could be a reason I suppose.
I just have a bad gut feeling about this....
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VAT rate can be either
Delivery date
or
Invoice date
Get an invoice dated in Dec and you pay 15% irrespective of the car being delivered even in January
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Get an invoice dated in Dec and you pay 15% irrespective of the car being delivered even in January
I'm not a VAT expert but I don't think that's correct. VAT is due at the date of supply of the goods or service.
Even if it is possible to pay in advance, I'd be nervous about paying all that money up front. - plenty of dealers have gone bust.
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Can't edit my post now, but there is extensive discussion of this point elsewhere and it seems that you could avoid the increase but you would have to pay in advance - the invoice date is irrelevant, the critical date is the date on which you pay:
Section 2.6 here:
www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/forms-rates/rates/rate-rise-gu...f
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a
Edited by pmh3 on 24/11/2009 at 21:02
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From your previous posts, it sounds as if you ordered a car with quite a detailed and "unusual" spec. I remember oldgit on this forum having a similar long delay with a unusual spec Golf. It may be that they are pumping through the more regular orders and yours is slightly on the back-burner because of this.
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'Production slippage' is normally measured in minutes, with a big clock above the production line showing whether the line is above, on, or behind target, with commensurate bonuses. 3 weeks sounds like an excuse for some other reason.
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I strongly suspect that a lot of manufacturers are favouring other, more profitable markets than the UK. Currently, pre-tax prices of new cars in the UK, converted to Euros, are about 20% lower than in the rest of Europe. At least Ford has put its head above the wall and raised its prices closer to those in the Eurozone. The others are simply cutting supply. There was a thread about this in which I wrote pretty much the same thing at the beginning of the year.
HJ
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Even this time last year when I ordered my 330d Touring I (for my amusement) played with BMW's online car configurator launched from the German website, even then to get the same spec in Europe was about £8K more (10K EUR more) as they're much lower specced in Germany e.g. no climate control, cruise control, cheaper wheels / tyres etc.
I ordered in mid December, the car was built in early Feb and delivered in early March this year, I too wanted an unusual spec being manual with cloth trim (they even offered leather for free at the time).
Best advice I can give is to wait - it will be worth it, see if you can get the dealer to 'do something' about the VAT cost increase, I know VW dealers are currently prepared to do this from recent experience.
As for BMW prioritising profitable car builds - they are a business after all and if you were a shareholder you'd wish them to do this wouldn't you ?
As for Fords, they're too expensive now, looked at a Focus last week and found we could get a Golf for about the same money, I know the Focus is a brilliant car but the economic theory of utility applies - I couldn't perceive a Ford as worth the money they wanted. A brave and perhaps sensible move for them in an oligopoly market, could backfire but then dealers are offering big discounts to compensate so who knows where it will lead.
Edited by idle_chatterer on 26/11/2009 at 12:28
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Ford prices remain the basis on which you start to negotiate. They still come in cheaper than VWs after negotiation, but now a bit dearer than they were before. Transaction prices of Focus after 3 or 4 price rises are about £1,000 more than they were in January.
HJ
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hiya,
I am in exactly the same position only a week or two in front, I have had an E91 330d msport touring (with most boxes ticked) on order since september which was due to delivered week beginning 16/11. Its built and in transit due 07/12. I was told that 6 cyl engines were being cut back and that priority was given to 4 cyl cars.
I had exactly the same thoughts as you are now having but everything should be fine, I also got a good deal with the car costing new what 6 month old 5k miles lower spec ones are asking on AUC. Just wondering what tyres it will come with.
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Ford prices remain the basis on which you start to negotiate. They still come in cheaper than VWs after negotiation but now a bit dearer than they were before. Transaction prices of Focus after 3 or 4 price rises are about £1 000 more than they were in January. HJ
As ever, sage words of advice, Ford dealers were certainly happy to give big discounts last weekend but the residuals (unfairly perhaps) are partly based on the perception of the value of their products and are lower than VWs, a 1.8 Titanium Focus was actually about £1K cheaper than the Golf 122 TSi SE we ordered but would have cost us more over 3 years in depreciation and would always have been a Ford rather than the illogically more prestigious VW (our value judgement of course).
Your citing of the actual transaction price is much more informative than list prices. In my industry list price has long since been fairly irrelevant.
I understand the pressures the weak £ puts manufacturers and importers under, I saw large deals go from decent positive profitability to negative in Oct-Nov last year as the UK £ sank against the US $ (and JP YEN), and doing business at a loss isn't good for anybody.
On the bright side, anyone who manufactures in the UK should have an advantage at the moment perhaps ? e.g. Vauxhall, Honda, Toyota and Nissan. Am I correct in thinking that Ford chose to move assembly elsewhere but still make high value components such as engines here ?
Back to the OP - I think your 330d will be well worth the wait.....
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My dad ordered a 318d SE on the 14th October. Was to be a factory order because it was a colour not many ordered (barbera red- a deep winey type red) and it was delivered to dealer on the 13th Nov and we collected on the 17th so no problems as far as we're concerned.
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The dealer has confirmed by email that "delivery will definitely be made in December", so let's wait and see.
Mine will be Azurite Black (not many of those around) and manual gearbox (unusual for 3 litre cars) , as well as being a 6-cyl (mentioned as a possible factor by another BMW customer in this thread) - so all of that together has probably resulted in the delay.
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I have taken delivery of a 320i touring at the end of June this year.
My experience was one of being under promised and the dealer over achieving - e.g. I was quoted 8 week delivery and it arrived after 4 - I only ticked a couple of options but I was very impressed with how quickly the car arrived and I was regularly kept up to date with delivery details.
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"Mine will be Azurite Black (not many of those around) and manual gearbox (unusual for 3 litre cars) , as well as being a 6-cyl (mentioned as a possible factor by another BMW customer in this thread) - so all of that together has probably resulted in the delay."
I think you have hit the nail on the head there.
Worth waiting for though!
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PS - Know what you mean about auto boxes - I never liked them years ago, but have to say that modern ones with 5,6,7 gears (new BM GT?) are worlds away from the old ones.
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I have a BMW GT brochure in my car....Noooooooooooooooo !
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I have a BMW GT brochure in my car...
Oh but yes PU, yes yes yes.........Don't ignore the voices, they're real you know.......
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"I have a BMW GT brochure in my car....Noooooooooooooooo !"
Thought it was a cracking car - but then perhaps for the wrong reasons! Very good looking, loads of room, very well equipped, very comfortable and a compliant ride. Latter point probably means that the "traditional" BMW driver sees it as less of a BMW! It also had 3 settings for suspension - Comfort (that may not be the correct term!), Sport and Sport+. Latter settings may have "turned it into a BMW" but I was not in a position to test it on those settings.
Would be interested in others' views - only drove it for about 60 miles on congested roads.
Phil
That Porsche Panamera looks good too!
Edited by PhilW on 26/11/2009 at 22:54
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My dad ordered a 318d SE on the 14th October....delivered to dealer on the 13th Nov
>>
That's astonishingly quick for a factory ordered car. Production is scheduled many months in advance and you must have been able to pick up an uncommited scheduled build, perhaps changing the colour (although even that is ususual at such short notice).
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Might they be waiting for a new supply of non-cracking wheels?
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If the OP waits another three weeks, it will be registered 2010 - no?
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Might they be waiting for a new supply of non-cracking wheels?
The SE Highline version I ordered comes with the 18 inch alloys which IMHO are better looking than the 19-inch bling prone-to-crack ones, as well as, by all accounts, having much better driving characteristics.
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I went for the SE spec on my 330d Tourer - 'only' 17" wheels with 225-45s on mine, this is recommended by almost every road test of the 3 Series I've ever read but somehow you still seem to see more M-Sports than SEs, at least on de-badged 4 cylinder cars (which always make me chuckle).
I find the ride on 225-45x17 runflats to be firm but not hard or 'crashy' and the handling is superb, I'd put the overall setup in SE form on a 'par' with Audi's S-Line configuration so by no means soft.
Your car sounds lovely - what colour interior did you go for ?
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Your car sounds lovely - what colour interior did you go for ?
Cream leather with Azurite Black (deep bluey / black metallic). Used to have a previous 3-series coupe in sapphire black with this interior and have also had the model before that, again metallic black, but with light grey leather. The cream looks very classy with dark exteriors and makes the cabin a little more pleasant (light and airy) to be in but the carpets / mats are hard work to keep clean!
I've only seen pics on various forums as to what Azurite Black paintwork looks like (no dealers had any in-the-flesh examples) so I'm taking a bit of a punt there, but I just fancied a bit of a change from standard metallic black and didn't particulary like the Monaco blue (the darker of the two metallic blues that are in the standard metallic range).
To be honest, I don't think any of the colours available for new 3-series are particularly inspiring. I was toying with the idea of Barbera Red but in the flesh there's too much of a pinky-purple tinge to in bright light.
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Hi
My car arrived today handover on Wednesday all sealed and protected!!!!
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Working in a car plant, involved in the supply chain it could be something very simple that of a supplier unable to supply. If that was the case then, will the missing part require the car to be removed from the trim lines, or can it be retro fitted once the car has gone through the build process, either way plants go to great and costly expense to avoid this.
Suppliers unable to supply is not unusual in the early days of a new model. They are dependent themselves on other suppliers who have no relationship to the car manufacturer. If a car or cars have been removed from general assembly then the schedulers have to find a gap in which to slot them in.
Edited by jaffa on 27/11/2009 at 23:32
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Thanks, Jaffa, for that 'insider' view. Very interesting. I guess it's Japanese manufacturers who probably have the slickest supply chain processes, just-in-time inventory etc. But the Germans are probably not far behind.
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I guess it's Japanese manufacturers who probably have the slickest supply chain
The key difference is that Japanese manufacturers produce very few versions of each model and tend not to have factory fit options, other than colour choice, and even that can be pretty limited. It's not all that long ago that if you wanted a Honda Civic with a/c, they fitted it at the dealership.
The factory fitted option range on BMW etc is immense.
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" have a BMW GT brochure in my car....Noooooooooooooooo....."
Maybe you should get a test drive in one and then tell us how it compares with your CRV. I'd put some money on its not being worth however many £000s it costs more than the equivalent Honda.
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" have a BMW GT brochure in my car....Noooooooooooooooo....."
I would suggest waiting for the new 5 Series. I saw one the other day, fantastic looking, same interior as the 5GT and likely to be cheaper. No frameless windows though:-(
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I would suggest waiting for the new 5 Series. I saw one the other day
Where? I thought they weren't out till next spring, and had only released pics and prices to spoil E-class sales.
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Where? I thought they weren't out till next spring and had only released pics and prices to spoil E-class sales.
Dead right, boxsterboy. According to the official BMW site "The new BMW 5 Series Saloon goes on sale 20 March, 2010. "
And I also think that you make a shrewd point when you say that it will hit sales of the E-class.
I've only seen the pics and the videos, but I am really pleased that BMW are making cars that look like BMWs again, both on the outside and on the inside (they have re-instated the old layout of having the dashboard angled towards the driver). I really can't get on with the cars of the Bangle era - apart from the really nice 3-coupe.
I was planning of switching to another brand in a couple of years time when my current jalopy needs replacing, but now I am not so sure.....
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Where? I thought they weren't out till next spring and had only released pics and prices to spoil E-class sales.
Near where I live, in Munich.
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not being worth however many £000s it costs more than the equivalent Honda.
There isn't an equivalent Honda (or hardly any other make) to the BMW GT.
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Is this normal? BTW I did secure a very big discount on the order
Can you say how big the discount was? I'm trying to get a realistic idea of new prices against current approved used cars.
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2. Motorlogix website indicates £3,618 off a 330d SE Highline Coupe. A week ago, I went directly to my local BMW dealer, offered £29K for a built-to-my-order one with a retail price of £35K+ and the sales executive didn't bat an eyelid. Simply said 'please sign here' so I did, saving £6,125 in the process.
This was posted in another thread - sorry I don't know the etiquette or technical method for posting a link.....
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Just a quick update...
The car was delivered on 15 December so my worries were clearly unfounded. Have to give the dealership (Sytner Coventry) absolutely top marks, totally flawless buying experience (except the delayed delivery, which isn't their fault) and securing a £6,250 discount is obviously a major bonus.
The engine (3.0 diesel 245hp) feels a little tight at the moment of course, so looking forward to running it in over the next few months.
Paid extra for Azurite Black paint. Much deeper shine to it than normal metallics, looks just on the bluey side of black under normal lighting but when the sun catches it there's a beautiful (IMO) blue tinge to it. Great with cream leather but if there's only one negative it would be that the I'm not convinced that the leather's texture is as inviting as that of my previous E46 3-series.
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Nice - enjoy, don't go out in the snow !
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