Vauxhall Astra F (1991 - 1998) - 96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start.

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Sat 30 Jan 2010 12:02
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - peterc1665
Hi,
My Astra 1.4 will not start, when I turn the engine over it will fire if I put my foot right to the floor and keep the starter motor turning, but it will not rev up and start and stops firing if I take my foot off the gas and when I stop turning the starter motor it's dead. Even an RAC man when called out could not identify the fault.
I hope a motor repair Guru out there can help me before I loose it and scrap the car, but it's only got around 60,000 on the clock and the engine when running is sweet.
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Sat 30 Jan 2010 12:29
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - bell boy
you dont start these with foot on gas so youve probably flooded it to oblivion
take plugs out let them dry for an hour refit them ,wrap your legs round your neck so you cant touch the pedals and try starting it again
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Sat 30 Jan 2010 14:15
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - peterc1665


I maybe should rephrase what I said, "THE ONLY WAY I CAN GET THE ENGINE TO FIRE IS TO PUT MY FOOT TO THE FLOOR", I am 56 years old and have been driving for 38 of those years, please bell boy, a little credit! I am not the sharpest tool in the box but I do have a few brain cells. This car as always started OK with the normal procedure, turn engine over touch of gas when engine fires, this is how I've been starting this car for the three years that I have owned it with not trouble, is there anyone out there that is going to give me better advice than wrap my legs round my head, honestly some people!.
Right that out of the way, the car has a spark brighter than bell boy! there is petrol there, when trying to start the car it will not fire UNLESS I put my foot to the floor, but it will not start. I thought maybe petrol starvation but Mister RAC man said that there is plenty getting through, funny enough he also said he could only get it to fire when he put the accelerator pedal to the floor. Please help if you can I would be very grateful.
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Sat 30 Jan 2010 14:26
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - bell boy
having sold cars for longer than i care to remember one of the most overiding factors when single point injection came out was you dont touch the throttle
i used to use the leg round neck scenario to customers to explain the foolproof way of starting these type of cars and i never got called anything other than sensible
maybe you know more than me and the rac man so he too gave up



i could tell you what the answer is now that you have given full facts and so could the rac man as its basic and common on this engine but hey what do i know
ps a hint (temperature)
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Sat 30 Jan 2010 18:50
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - peterc1665
Thanks for your response bell boy, I don't doubt your knowledge I was just trying to point out that I start the car (when it's OK) without gas encouragement and that the foot to the floor was stumbled upon during trying to start it, I wrongly thought it may be of use to explain that when this happened it fired, I assumed you would pick up on that. I certainly don't know better than you or the RAC man that's why I described myself as not the sharpest tool in the box, otherwise I would have sorted it myself. I just felt your response like a slap in the face and let you know it.
Anyway thanks for the hint about the temperature censor, that had crossed my mind but I didn't know if the engine being cold anyway would make that a possibility, I will have to look into it.

By the way it's a 96 1.4 8valve carb model, when promted to put model the nearest one was Astra F, so I just hit that, told you I wasn't the sharpest LOL
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Sat 30 Jan 2010 21:00
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - Dynamic Dave
By the way it's a 96 1.4 8valve carb model


Around 1993 carburetters became obsolete in the uk due to strict new emission controls. Your 1996 Astra has a single point injection system. It may look like a carb, but it's more electronically sophisticated than that.

Also, a 96 Astra is an Astra-F.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 30/01/2010 at 21:01

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Sun 31 Jan 2010 07:52
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - peterc1665
riiiiiight!, see I'm not sharpest LOL, oh my word!. Well now I have made a plonker of myself it can only go up from here, I hope, thanks for the lesson Dave.
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Sat 30 Jan 2010 14:29
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - elekie&a/c doctor
Possibly a blockage in the exhaust sytem.This could stop it firing up.Get somebody to remove the lambda sensor to see if this improves the situation.hth
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Sun 31 Jan 2010 07:58
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - peterc1665
Me and a mate(who knows about car engines) are going to look at the motor today, I will try romoving the lambda sensor, thanks mate.
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Sat 30 Jan 2010 15:50
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - Dynamic Dave
there is petrol there when trying to start the car it will not fire UNLESS
I put my foot to the floor but it will not start.


Bell boy is correct in what he says (and what he doesn't know you could write on the back of a postage stamp). Cars with fuel injection DON'T need any encouragement to start by pressing the accelerator pedal.

On some cars by putting your foot to the floor while starting tells the ECU to switch off the injectors. This is for when you've flooded the engine so you can dump some air into the cylinders to push the unburnt fuel out.

I take it the ECU light isn't flashing? If it is then it's an immobiliser related problem.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 30/01/2010 at 15:55

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Sat 30 Jan 2010 16:13
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - Peter D
Have you checked the fuel pressure as the injector input pipe. I assume you have a decent and consistant spark. Regards Peter
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Sun 31 Jan 2010 08:48
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - peterc1665
Sorry Peter D, I was having trouble posting there, but it seems to be OK now.
I haven't checked the fuel pressure at the injector pipe myself but the RAC man said that he checked fuel input and said it was fine and he can't see why it will not start!. Is that any help mate?.
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Sun 31 Jan 2010 08:27
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - peterc1665
I don't doubt that Bell boy is a clever chap, I think we, or at least I, got off on a bad start, I shall endeavor (endeavour for the staunch British)to put things right, nice of you to speak up for his abilities.
.*********
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Sun 31 Jan 2010 08:32
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - peterc1665
can you help me out with posting here, I answered your post starting with "I don't doubt Bell boy is a clever chap", and then went on to talk about the problem, it would only post the first bit and the rest was replace with a row of stars ********, whats that about, lol.
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Sun 31 Jan 2010 17:35
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - Dynamic Dave
a row of stars ******** whats that about lol.


There are two levels the swear filter works to.

See www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=70...5 for further info.

Unfortunately the swear filter can sometimes be dumb in that it will pick up an innocent word within a word or you've mispelt the word.

DD.
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Sun 31 Jan 2010 08:41
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - peterc1665
Right Dave I'm gonna try again!.
I can see what you are saying, but when first trying to start the car, I used the normal turn engine, no gas routine, nothing!, it was only later out of frustration that I put my foot to the floor and noticed that the engine fired, it's not how I start the car usually but I thought it might help diagnosis if I tell you chaps about that. The RAC bloke dried the plugs and heated them, but the car still wouldn't start.
Well post preview looks good so this one should go!.
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Sun 31 Jan 2010 09:00
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - piston power
Replace the coolant temperature sensor these fail making cold starting near impossible, this is not the one for the gauge which is a single wire but a twin might be in the inlet manifold like the corsa at the rear.
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Sun 31 Jan 2010 13:39
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - peterc1665
Thanks bigtree, is there a way of testing this before I get a replacement, it's just that I live quite away from my local auto shop.
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Sun 31 Jan 2010 13:56
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - piston power
Yes test it with your meter they don't cost the earth last one was £14.00 at vx.
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Sun 31 Jan 2010 16:10
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - slowdown avenue
have you checked the plugs
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Sun 31 Jan 2010 17:56
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - Peter D
Go and buy a can of Easy Start and get a helper to spray it in the air intake whilst you crank it over. Assuming the plugs are not soaked and she fires up, you have a fuel starvation problem. Check the temp sensor ( 2000 ish ohms cold from memory )as has been mentioned then the fuel pressure at the injector input. Regards Peter
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Mon 1 Feb 2010 09:44
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - peterc1665
Hi Pete,
Thanks for the advice mate!, I will check the sensor for 2000 ish ohms from cold, I have never checked fuel pressure at injectors, so a "how to check fuel pressure for dummies" from you would be much appreciated please.
Regards, Pete.
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Mon 1 Feb 2010 09:32
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - peterc1665
Yes plugs checked, OK!
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Mon 1 Feb 2010 14:10
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - Peter D
If with all the cranking and the plugs are still dry then it is telling you something. Can you here the fuel pump start up for about 2 seconds when you turn the ignition on. Regards Peter
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Tue 2 Feb 2010 09:49
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - peterc1665
Sorry Pete, I think I may have misled you!, the plugs are damp when removed but the RAC man cleaned, dried and heated them up with a blow torch, they were then replaced but the car didn't start. When the plugs were removed again they were damp with fuel, he also said he checked that fuel was going in.
It's my Birthday today(56, old sod) so I am expecting family round which means I can't do much today, I will try your advice and listen for fuel pump activity as soon as I can.
Am I to listen at the rear of the car while someone turns the ignition on?. Thankyou for your continuing help Pete, I think you must realise by now you have the unenviable task of turning a pink fluffy dice into a mechanic....... in a day or so, at this point I best say sorry again, lol.
Regards, Pete.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 02/02/2010 at 10:14

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Tue 2 Feb 2010 09:53
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - peterc1665
Wow! whats happening with the swear filter, I promise I'm not saying anything bad lol.

{Both I, and the swear filter beg to differ. There are no innocent words in the filter that could get mistaken for swearwords beginning with the letter "T" - DD}

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 02/02/2010 at 10:15

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Tue 2 Feb 2010 09:56
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - peterc1665
By the way, thanks to everyone who has or is offering help, very much appreciated.
Pete.
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Tue 2 Feb 2010 10:46
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - Peter D
Have you checked for a decent spark. Long shot, is the cam belt intact. Regards Peter
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Thu 4 Feb 2010 07:41
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - peterc1665
Hi Pete,
Sorry for slow response but I have been very busy and had to leave the car for a while. Anyway Pete, there is a spark and the cam belt is fine.
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Thu 11 Feb 2010 00:22
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - CH
If you've got fuel going to the cylinders, and you have generous sparks at all plugs, and you have compression on all cylinders then, surely, you must have a timing problem(?). The 2-wire engine temperature sensor is a very plausible candidate though! I spent WEEKS trying to get a multipoint Astra F to start. Checked the pulley in case it had slipped on the crankshaft, replaced the camshaft sensor, engine temp sensor, plugs, plug leads, even a substitute ECU - all to no avail. Finally realised that during my fiddling I had mixed up the plug lead outlets from the DIS to the plugs - the only cylinder that was correctly firing was No 1. Reconnected leads correctly and it ran like a sewing machine! (Just a thought).
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Tue 16 Feb 2010 08:24
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - peterc1665
Just a worthy thought CH!, and thanks for your suggestions mate, much appreciated.
I have talked to a mate and he said it can only be one thing in his mind, that's cam shaft problem, he's going to do a compression test today, he said the symptoms I describe sound like one or two cylinders are getting enough petrol to show on the plugs but, but not enough compression to allow the engine to run, even if there is a spark! hence the firing but non running of the engine, by the way he did check plug lead orientation. I don't know what you lads think but it seems to make sense to me, with less than the full four cylinders fully compressing the engine ain't gonna go!.
I will let you know what he finds, I'm glad I have found someone to actually look at it for me, it's been a pain in the rear!!!.
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Tue 16 Feb 2010 08:28
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - piston power
Put another engine in have done.
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Tue 16 Feb 2010 19:24
96 1.4 Engine fires but will not start. - peterc1665
Thanks for your reply bigtree, but why fit another engine?. Surely a top end is far easier to deal with than a whole engine, from the head down the engine is pukka, only 60 grand on the clock, no smoke, knocks or rattles and don't use oil or water, the cost of another engine plus fitting must be more than dealing with a simple cam problem?. I don't think I should be replacing a good engine, as a way of dealing with a possible worn cam shaft it seems a bit hasty and drastic, but having said that I'm not a mechanic so I will bare in mind what you say mate.
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