cloned car

Honest John Back Room » Legal matters
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Thu 17 Jun 2010 12:04
cloned car - hookster66

hello to one and all.

i bought a very expensive car last year.59 plate.vehicle was an import,bought from a seemingly reputable garage which i had checked and approved.garage still exists and trades at the very top end.the car was bought by them from the company which originally imported and registered the car.this company tho...no longer seem to be around.

car was hpi'd,had all the docs and a v5, when sent off,my v5 and tax disc came to me from the dvla,with all matching details...though strangely no engine number on the v5.

car was stolen later on....so i reported it and made an insurance claim.

ultimately...the police now say that the car was a clone...how on earth can it be if the dvla have checked the thing ? ive looked at the directgov website on how to import a car....hoops and more hoops to jump through, no simple matter.

where on earth does this leave me ??? insurance will pay? claim against dvla? sue the garage? cos im out 6 figures

and how often does this occur...cos theres clearly an open door to criminals in the way cars are imported and checked.....or?

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Thu 17 Jun 2010 15:29
cloned car - LucyBC

One of the guiding principles of law is that it is almost impossible to develop good title. Hence If the top end dealer bought a stolen car and they sold it on to you the law has to decide whether to protect the original owner (or their insurer if the claim has been settled) or you as the honest purchaser.

With very limited exceptions the law will protect the original owner. The purchaser - in this case the dealer - cannot acquire a good title unless the seller had it to sell. In the same way if the car is sold on again the dealer, not having good title cannot sell it to you with good title.

So in legal terms it is highly likely that the person with good title to the vehicle is the original owner (or their insurer) and if it is ever recovered it must be returned to them for disposal.

You will have a claim for all your losses against the dealer for breach of the implied condition (in section 12 Sale of Goods Act) that they had the right to sell the car.

The dealer in turn will have a claim against the importer who sold him the car - although that might not be much use to him if the importer has gone out of business.

Whether you will have to sue your dealer yourself or can rely on your insurer to support you depends on the attitude taken by your insurer. Depending on the legal advice they receive they may decide to support your claim in the face of the possibility of an adverse Ombudsman decision or they may attempt to wash their hands of you altogether.

Previous Ombudsman decisions in this area are highlighted at:

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/55/55-ask.htm

One thing for certain is that when there is any dispute over a six figure amount there is likely to be almighty argument before there is any agreed outcome.

You will need expert legal representation in this case. The good news is that given the amount and circumstances you are likely to recover any costs from the other party(s).

However also considering the amount and the high stakes involved this is not a case you should be seeking to discuss further in a public forum. If you contact me privately at lucy.bonhamcarter@qualityanswers.co.uk with your contact details I will arrange for a free consultation with a specialist motor insurance litigation lawyer to go through your possible options in greater detail.

Edited by LucyBC on 17/06/2010 at 15:42

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Thu 17 Jun 2010 16:18
cloned car - Honestjohn

This story from a reader received about a month ago might be relevant:

My daughters friend’s boyfriend agreed to purchase a Honda Legend and a Mitsubishi Shogun from a man he knew where he works at a city bank. The cars were imports direct from Japan at silly prices. The cars were almost new with all guarantees, paperwork, etc. The cars duly arrived at the docks and the guy in question paid cash for them and had them driven home. Weeks later, after he had registered the cars, he received a letter from insurance claims people saying that the cars had both been stolen in Japan and if he did not come to an agreement with the claims assessors to pay them an agreed amount for the stolen cars they would serve him with a High Court writ, make a complaint to the police and have the cars seized as stolen property. To cut a long story short, the buyer had to pay the money to get legal title to the cars. There also is an intriguing finish to this sad story. When thoroughly checking both cars the buyer found an enormous quantity of Gillette Mach One razor blades, well concealed in them. These razor blades were later found to be fakes and the crooks had obviously forgotten to take them out of the cars before they were sold on. Please warn your readers about this peril. The razor blades could easily have been parcels of drugs. The consequences for a gullible buyer could have been disastrous.

PM, Shere, Surrey.

My reply at the time: The adverse Sterling/Yen rate means that new and nearly new cars cannot be imported from Japan at silly prices and anyone working for a City Bank would know that. I suspect the whole thing was a set-up. The old adage applies: “If it seems to good to be true it will be.”

HJ

Edited by Honestjohn on 17/06/2010 at 16:22

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