Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - Avant

Can we please be careful not to criticise other people's spelling and grammar. Some posters may be actually dyslexic and not be able to avoid errors - yet those same people may have much to offer us in terms of relevant expertise.

There are times when this sort of thing matters - indeed I gave a lecture on effective writing to some of my firm's trainees this very morning, saying how vital correctness and clarity are in business communications - but an informal forum isn't one of those times.

If we think of someone's post as an E-mail from a friend, or even a conversation in a pub, we wouldn't correct their English. So let's take people as they are.

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - pda

Well said, Avant.

Pat

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - jc2

It does help if the post is understandable! Perhaps you could also request people to stop "sniping" at one another.

Edited by jc2 on 17/11/2010 at 15:48

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - roders2

I would like to reply as a dislectic.

I watched my father when I was a kid he was more dislectic than I, he would avoid writing anything at any cost, in the bank or oost office he would say to the teller can you fill it out for me i haven't got my glasses.

I decided not to go down that route, I write it even if it is wrong I use a spell checker if available but that does not always work as it can choose amarican spellin.

I have a neibour if I send him an Email He can say, that Email I did not understand it, I say to him do not read it literaly, listen to the words what do you think I ment.

I have no problem reading and understanding content and verry rarley see spelling mistakes.

but the main point I am not ashamed of it.

Didnt use spell check on this.

Rod

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - justin_ruch1180

I totally agree with you on this one..

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - BBBB

A very over-emotional argument, and a bit of a cop out.

As with so much else these days the lazy and lowest denominator or minority takes precedence and thus sets a new ever lowering standard that is then assumed to be the acceptable bench mark.

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - Avant

Your first post on this forum. Welcome - I think - but I've no idea what you're talking about as there is nothing emotional in any of the above posts! On this forum we try to take people as they are.

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - concrete

Well said Avant, it would be nice if everyone did have a perfect grasp of spelling, grammar and syntax, but few do, including yours truly. As long as we get the gist of the matter from the thread that is the main thing. We should not openly correct the threads, but we can in reply, set a good example. Sometimes delicate points are ambiguous and replies often ask for clarification or more detail, however we get there in the end. The sheer amount of opinion available is wonderful and amongst that there are some real gems of advice. I find the whole process fascinating and enlightening. The lack of any formal education has clearly not detracted from the wealth and breadth of knowledge and experience that is freely given by most posters. Long may it be so. Best to all. Concrete

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - RT

The problem with not correcting mistakes is that the spelling and grammar just gets worse and worse - helpful correction should be encouraged.

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - concrete

The problem with not correcting mistakes is that the spelling and grammar just gets worse and worse - helpful correction should be encouraged.

Hello RT, it depends on your interpretation of 'helpful'. I advocated not openly correcting errors but setting examples in the reply. This is for several reasons. Firstly, to point out an error to someone may be accepted in private but in open forum it may be humiliating. Secondly, as long as the gist of the thread is intelligible let it run, otherwise we all become 'schoolteachers' and end up marking each others threads out of 10. As previously stated we all did not receive the benefit of a decent education, but what passes for one in our modern times which seems to exclude any importance placed on written English language. I work with several very clever and highly skilled engineers who can't spell 'Bob' forwards or backwards. This does not detract from their workplace activity but it does mean any reports or letters they have to compose are vetted by our Director to ensure they conform to the principles of the English language and are intelligible. So much for progress! Cheers Concrete

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - Avant

Thanks Concrete - that's exactly our position. I sympathise, RT, and sometimes I long to correct posters' English. But an informal forum isn't the time and place to do this.

There are just two occasions when I do make amendments - to insert paragraphs for ease of reading where someone just hasn't stopped for breath; and where the OP has made an error in the subject heading which then gets repeated in each post.

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - Chesty

* worser and worser

I think this is waht you are trying to say

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - Smileyman

I think it must be remembered that most posters here are not trained typists, and so the opportunity for mis-typed words is greater.

I use some discssion boards that do correct the spelling as one types - perhaps in time HJ might adopt such a feature; this woudl eliminate one source of irritant.

My personal dislike is the use of American English spelling and this would be addressed by the spell checker software too.

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - jamie745

How ironic that post contained two spelling mistakes.

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - Bobbin Threadbare

How ironic that post contained two spelling mistakes.

I really want to point out that your post needed a semi-colon after 'how ironic', but I won't.

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - jamie745

Well that would be very silly wouldn't it. It's good you're not going to do that.

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - Bobbin Threadbare

Question mark after 'wouldn't it'.

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - jamie745

Any more of that missy and you're in for some serious punishment.

:P

Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - amalberba

English spelling and grammar is extremely challenging. Whether you found yourself drifting off during English class or you are learning English as a second language, spelling and grammar can be difficult to grasp. That said, if you want to make a good impression on the job, with friends or at a dinner party, spelling and grammar are critical. Read on for several changes you can incorporate into your daily life to ensure that your English grammar and spelling skills improve dramatically.

Edited by Avant on 10/11/2012 at 23:26

Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - madf

When we recruited school leavers , we automatically discraded those who could not spell or punctuate -unless they stood out for other reasons.

With lots of candidates, it was a fair and easy way to winnow out those too thick/lazy to get it right.

Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - galileo

When we recruited school leavers , we automatically discraded those who could not spell or punctuate -unless they stood out for other reasons.

With lots of candidates, it was a fair and easy way to winnow out those too thick/lazy to get it right.

I'm not familiar with 'discrade', nor is my dictionary?

Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - Steamdrivenandy

Shouldn't the topic title read 'let's not get existed'?

Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - concrete

Why is eveyone pispronunciating their worms? Come on lads and lasses, at the very least we have 'spellcheck' and 'dictionary' in our software. Cheers Concrete

Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - unthrottled

HJ doesn't seem to support an auto spelling checker. I often get letters mixed up and it''s not easy to spot these mistakes because you know what you intended to write and see what you expect to see!

Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - boggles

If someone has a problem with their breaks, you can always talk about brakes when you post a reply. I don't mind seeing spelling and grammar mistakes, just as long as text speak is not allowed. On some forums text speak is used routinely, oh M8 it's awful!

Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - Turbodieseldriver

Thank you Avant,

Well spoken

Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - oldgit

Thank you Avant,

Well spoken

I think that good grammar, spelling and punctuation are necessary when trying to communicate with others and saying that this does not matter too much, even on forums, is a cop out, to be honest.

I cannot abide bad grammar and today we hear far too much sloppy speech from our youngsters which makes one think just what will our future professionals such as lawyers and doctors sound like in, say, twenty year's time?

Of course we should be more tolerant with people, whom English is not their first language but for those not in this category, then there is no excuse.

Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - concrete

Thank you Avant,

Well spoken

I think that good grammar, spelling and punctuation are necessary when trying to communicate with others and saying that this does not matter too much, even on forums, is a cop out, to be honest.

I cannot abide bad grammar and today we hear far too much sloppy speech from our youngsters which makes one think just what will our future professionals such as lawyers and doctors sound like in, say, twenty year's time?

Of course we should be more tolerant with people, whom English is not their first language but for those not in this category, then there is no excuse.

There is an excuse, or should I say reason. The education system that served we older folk so well has so tragically failed those who followed. What on earth is wrong with ensuring that every pupil leaves school with at least the basics of English, our own language and a vital means of communication? Shame on Shirley Williams for changing to Comprehensive education and then failing to ensure it was just that; comprehensive. Also shame on every government since for allowing this situation to perpetuate. However, despite the distaste for poor grammar, spelling and syntax an open forum is inclusive and welcoming. Not really the place for teaching via correction, but rather to set an example of how a matter can be succinctly and accurately described. It seems that even those unfortunate enough not to have received the benefit of a decent education in English can easily understand good, lucid composition. In this way I hope this influences them to self correct, for use in future posts. Not least for the blood pressure of some forum participants. Best to all. Concrete
Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - jamie745

A school not a million miles from where I live has recently employed people to check the reports teachers send to parents to make sure they're grammatically correct.

No joke.

Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - RT

A school not a million miles from where I live has recently employed people to check the reports teachers send to parents to make sure they're grammatically correct.

No joke.

That's unbelievable - it couldn't possibly happen in this country !

Except I can quite believe it's true - it's utterly ridiculous.

Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - concrete

A school not a million miles from where I live has recently employed people to check the reports teachers send to parents to make sure they're grammatically correct.

No joke.

My point precisely, the system is not fit for purpose. It has even taught the Teachers badly in their native language. In the forum there is a degree of license for spelling and grammar. But in schools and in documents produced by Teachers, poor language skills are unforgivable. Cheers Concrete

Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - piggy

Of course we should be more tolerant with people, whom English is not their first language but for those not in this category, then there is no excuse.

That gives me an excellent excuse then, since I was seven before learng any English! :)

Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - Andrew-T

There is an excuse, or should I say reason. The education system that served we older folk so well ...

I don't usually dig into the 'reserved' threads, but being a pedant I have just looked at this one. It's a dodgy business adding anything, as it calls for careful triple-checking, but ...

'The education system that served WE ...' Well really ... perhaps the service wasn't perfect.

I'll get my coat.

Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - Henry the 9th

'I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae.
The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt ... '

Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - Avant

Very true, Henry IX - I could read that straight off. I think there has also been research proving that it's easier to read a word with the vowels missing than if even some of the consonants are missing.

Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - rtj70

Are these stickies not taking too much screen space these days? There's lot of them.

Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - mss1tw

There should be a sticky to debate this.

Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - concrete

Just caught up with this. Hello Andrew-T, nothing wrong with being a pedant and maybe I should have used quotation marks around "we older folk" to illustrate the use of a phrase, but you did understand what was written I presume, so mission accomplished.

Remember, Wat Tyler led the Peasants Revolt. Which Tyler led the Pedants Revolt!!!!

Cheers Concrete

Re: Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - squij

I quite agree. But you should have written " the education system that served us older folk", actually!

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - Colin_r

Totally agree

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - S-Doyle

Couldn't agree more.

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - bradmax
My spelling and grammar are shocking and don't mind people correcting my text as makes it easyer for people to understand :)
Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - alan1302
My spelling and grammar are shocking and don't mind people correcting my text as makes it easyer for people to understand :)

You spelt easier wrong! :-)

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - concrete

Well squij, Colin_r and S_Doyle, what was it I wrote about pedants in a previous post?? The choice of 'we' or 'us' as a collective term is purely subjective. Either will suffice and convey the message required. I dare say there may be a grammatical need to choose one or the other for a specific point. If you three are fully aware when that need may arise then I bow to your superior knowledge. I think Avant made the point that some license is taken and given when your powers of description are tested.

alan123, brad didn't spell easier wrong. He spelled it wrongly or incorrectly, oh dear, there goes the pedant again. I am going to lie down in a darkened room until I return to my normal forgiving self!!!

Cheers Concrete

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - dimdip

Heh, people getting excited about grammar and spelling in a thread called 'Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited' :)

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - concrete

Heh, people getting excited about grammar and spelling in a thread called 'Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited' :)

I tried to convey that the comments are all very firmly tongue in cheek. Poking a bit of harmless fun at each other for the variations available in our rich language. alan took it in the spirit in which it is intended. But you make a fine and subtle point about the comments and the thread title. Point taken. Cheers Concrete

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - alan1302

alan123, brad didn't spell easier wrong. He spelled it wrongly or incorrectly, oh dear, there goes the pedant again. I am going to lie down in a darkened room until I return to my normal forgiving self!!!

I knew as soon as I posted I bet I got that wrong (wrongly??!!)!! LOL

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - Avant

No, wrong is right there.

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - asavvop1
I agree too
Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - asavvop1
I agree
Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - Stanb Sevento

Why is there not a spellchecker on forums? My spelling is dreadful and I miss it a lot, I read over what I type and can spot a lot of them but there will be plenty that get missed.

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - gazzag

I dont mind the bad grammar or spelling (i'm not the most intelectual), its the text talk I dont like. I was goin 2 post the hole thing in txt toc but i dnt no it all.

Gary.

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - nellyjak

I can live with the bad spelling and grammar....providing the meaning is clear..I simply expect it on modern forums.

I accept too, that there are peeps that genuinely have problems with it.

But what's fascinating me right now is how our language is being changed/corrupted...this is an observation btw..not a whinge or moan.

The corruption of language has been constant for centuries.

But what has happened to the use of "th".?...now seemingly more and more redundant...eg. "fink"..(think).. fursday ..(Thursday) .."wiv"...(with) etc etc...now I know there are peeps that cannot help that...but is there an epidemic of short tongues..?

..and how has the letter "k" replaced the letter "g".?...as in somethink and nothink. (even worse...sumfink and nuffink..lol)....used to be somethinG and nothinG..

...and what about "would of"..?....as in "I would of thought.".that used to be "would have".?

...and it seems to have become the "norm" to start a sentence..or answer to a question with the word..."So"..?

Fascinating to an "old skool" git like me, educated in the 1960's.

Edited by nellyjak on 10/08/2017 at 10:37

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - RT

I can live with the bad spelling and grammar....providing the meaning is clear..I simply expect it on modern forums.

I accept too, that there are peeps that genuinely have problems with it.

But what's fascinating me right now is how our language is being changed/corrupted...this is an observation btw..not a whinge or moan.

The corruption of language has been constant for centuries.

But what has happened to the use of "th".?...now seemingly more and more redundant...eg. "fink"..(think).. fursday ..(Thursday) .."wiv"...(with) etc etc...now I know there are peeps that cannot help that...but is there an epidemic of short tongues..?

..and how has the letter "k" replaced the letter "g".?...as in somethink and nothink. (even worse...sumfink and nuffink..lol)....used to be somethinG and nothinG..

...and what about "would of"..?....as in "I would of thought.".that used to be "would have".?

...and it seems to have become the "norm" to start a sentence..or answer to a question with the word..."So"..?

Fascinating to an "old skool" git like me, educated in the 1960's.

It's the BBC's fault - they went all PC and abandoned "BBC English" which was their interpretation of King's/Queen's English - everyone could understand it and readily translate between their own local dialect/accent and BBC English.

Sadly, state schools seem to have abandoned it at around to same time.

Too many lefties in positions of influence!

Edited by RT on 10/08/2017 at 13:58

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - Avant

"But what has happened to the use of "th".?...now seemingly more and more redundant...eg. "fink"..(think).. fursday ..(Thursday) .."wiv"...(with) etc etc...now I know there are peeps that cannot help that...but is there an epidemic of short tongues..?

..and how has the letter "k" replaced the letter "g".?...as in somethink and nothink. (even worse...sumfink and nuffink..lol)....used to be somethinG and nothinG.."

Sometimes these are part of people's regional accents, sometimes just sloppy speech. But I haven't often seen it in writing. If people posted on here in text-speak, they wouldn't get much in the way of advice as most of us don't understand text-speak. They'd either go away or get the message.

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - Engineer Andy

"But what has happened to the use of "th".?...now seemingly more and more redundant...eg. "fink"..(think).. fursday ..(Thursday) .."wiv"...(with) etc etc...now I know there are peeps that cannot help that...but is there an epidemic of short tongues..?

..and how has the letter "k" replaced the letter "g".?...as in somethink and nothink. (even worse...sumfink and nuffink..lol)....used to be somethinG and nothinG.."

Sometimes these are part of people's regional accents, sometimes just sloppy speech. But I haven't often seen it in writing. If people posted on here in text-speak, they wouldn't get much in the way of advice as most of us don't understand text-speak. They'd either go away or get the message.

In my view, aside from one or two comments (I do use IMO instead of in my opinion), text-speak (or is that txtspk?) should essentially stay in that medium. Posters who can't be bothered to take a few minutes more to compose a question or response that at least tries to be in proper English are, in my book, asking to be ignored. Most of them seem to me to be of the type (Millenials with an entitlement issue) who can't be bothered to do even a small amount of research and expect everyone else to do the work for them, even when its easy to hand on this very website. If they can't be bothered, why should we to give an reasonable, considered response? Those who at least try and are honest, will, even if they make mistakes.

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - 30 yr's a Professional Driver

You should also consider it may just be a typo, i often type teh instead of the

Edited by Avant on 18/08/2017 at 20:12

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - Ryanfuego

Yeah, for some people it's Okay, but others just do not accept. Still if your vocabulary is good enough its okay sometimes to make a mistakes. Cmon guys, really nobody's prefect at English, and everyone has had even one case when made a mispelling or simple grammar mistake. So do not judge them, at least correct in the best polite way!

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - Theophilus

I agree ... but can't help noticing every time when of our most respected contributors writes asperated rather than aspirated :-)

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - hillman

When I was working in Africa one of my bosses, a Canadian, commenting on the standard of written reports, said that it would be good if English universities taught written English to undergraduates.

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - marysmith

I agree with you 200%, that is so annoying sometimes

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - DidierAubin87

You're true, it is terrible if a friend sends you an email and you can not understand totally its meaning.

Sometimes, I also get a mistake in writing but I found out an app on the computer, this app will help you check spelling and grammar when you are typing, it is very useful

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - Chesty

Totaly agree.

Thanx.

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - james04cooper

But what fun we'd be missing out on! Oh the joy of correcting other people when they make silly mistakes! The sheer love of it. Oh I know. It's bad. Very very bad. But. My god.

Spelling and grammar - let's not get excited - lordwoody

Over-enthusiastic use of full stop. ;-)