Dear All,
My lad has just come of age and wants to learn to drive. I am thinking about buying him a 94/94 M reg Vauxhall Corsa 1.2ls 70k miles at about £1800. I have read HJs comments in the car by car breakdown and am a bit confused whether the cambelt is chain or rubber driven. It looks quite tidy but I'm going to have a good look tomorrow. Are Corsas'ok for a first car, and is the price too much?
Cheers.
VD5D.
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It'll have a rubber Cambelt, not a chain.
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£1800 is way too much. About half that is more realistic.
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First generation Corsas are terrible imo. Crampt and duff handling. Get him a FIAT Punto instead, they are much better.
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Only the later 1.2 16v four has a chain cam, as does the 1.0 12v three. Both Suzuki engines.
HJ
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Thanks guys I'll think I'l give it a miss then. I'll keep Puntos in mind but what else is a good first car?
Cheers
VD5D
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The cheapest cars for learners will be anything that doesn't have any coolness or even attractiveness. Diesels should be cheaper to insure as they are not really associated with boy racers. Perhaps a mondeo diesel as at least has decent crumple zones and cheap fuel and parts costs but I don't know whether the insurance group would be too high as it is a larger car. Escort diesel is probably the next undesirable, along with astras.
teabelly
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u want a group one or two car no more
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You certainly don't want the expense of insuring a big car like a Mondeo - I looked at a Mondeo 4years ago at the age of 18. Insurance even then was quoted at approx £1750pa. How about an Escort, the old dog is quite cheap, even on a W plate and every garage can fix it! They are also good performers, especially the 1.6. I think insurance group is about 7. Doesn't necessarily mean it will be too high cost wise though.
Also consider a Seat Ibiza/Cordoba with a diesel engine?
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Phil,
Yes an Escort sounds good, and my lad likes them to. Don't want to pay out too much as I have to fund him at Uni next year "ouch"! I think I'll look round the local car auctions, see if I can find a bargain.
Cheers
VD5D
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I had a Pug 306 TD - great car and believe was grp 5 insurance.
Quick enough and handled really well.
Sure there are some bargain M/N or earler plates to be had.
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My first car was a Fiat Panda! While it was not very cool to own one of these at 17, I did learn all the basics of car maintenance which has helped me to this day. Why don't you buy him a £500 banger as his first so he can learn all the basics of keeping a car running. I was very proud of myself when I changed my first gearbox and head gasket on the Panda.
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The stock advice is get him something very cheap with group 1 or 2 insurance and let him build up no claims (in his own name!) whilst doing it.
Group 1/2 cars that are vaugely acceptable:
Group 1
Virtually all FIAT Pandas
FIAT Sciento
SEAT Marbella (really a Panda)
1.0l Vauxhall Corsa (1L 12v is a good engine)
Group 2:
www.parkers.co.uk/owning/insurance_guide/engine.as...2
Too many to list but FIAT Uno, Ford KA, and 1.0L SEAT Ibizas are highlights.
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A Moggy Minor, a few spanners and a screwdriver. Save £155 pa car tax and bits are so cheap they're silly. Absolutely no street cred though (if he's a Max Power type) but women love them so he may well be popular. At least he'd stand out from the crowd!
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A Moggy Minor, a few spanners and a screwdriver. Save £155 pa car tax and bits are so cheap they're silly. Absolutely no street cred though (if he's a Max Power type) but women love them so he may well be popular. At least he'd stand out from the crowd!
I was tempted to suggest a Herald 13/60 convertible for the same reasons, but I suppose it depends whether the young man in question has any interest in old cars, oily mechanical bits etc. I feel there is something to be said for learning to drive in something very old fashioned, with none of the driver aids of modern cars. Heralds teach you not to take liberties with twisty roads, and if you don't leave enough stopping distance, there's no ABS, ESP, emergency brake assist etc to get you out of the hole you just dug for yourself. However, I suspect most parents would be reluctant to apply the Darwinian approach to teaching their offspring to drive.....
Richard Hall
bangernomics.tripod.com
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1.0l Vauxhall Corsa (1L 12v is a good engine)
The garage that services my car nearly always lend me one of these as a courtesy car. I can't help but laugh at the noise the engine makes when you rev it. Not only does it sound one cylinder short of an engine, but I'm sure Singer sewing machines had a hand in building them :o)
Don't get me wrong though, for a 1.0 litre engine, it still goes well - until you try accelerating up a hill, that is. Mind you, after being used to the 2.2 litre engine in the Vectra, thats hardly suprising.
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Phil
Must disagree. We bought a Corsa ('96 1.2i LS) when my daughter was learning to drive a few years back, mainly because at Gp 2 it is insurable. No, they are not cramped, especially in the front, and the back's not too bad either. I've heard it said the pedals are a bit close together, but people who complain about that have clearly never driven a Saxo. If you want cramped, check out a Fiesta or Ka - the latter are really a 2-seater.
No, not race bred handling, but acceptable for the price. Anyway, they are learning, not racing. Add to that decent build quality, tough engines, good brakes and reasonable image, and you see why the driving schools love 'em. Cheap to tax, service and repair, and dealers everywhere. Dead easy to sell on once they've learned - ours went to the first caller of many. Can you apply all that to a Fiat?
v5d, whatever you do get lots of insurance quotes, before you buy anything. It's frightening!
Regards
John S
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I'd agree that corsas are not that bad. I hired a 1.0 and actually had a good laugh driving it round Ireland. I was shocked, I thought it would be rubbish.
Must be cheap 1.0's around by now?
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I'd agree that corsas are not that bad. Must be cheap 1.0's around by now?
Trouble is, a lot of the 1.0 litre Corsa's are used for School of Motoring or courtesy/pool cars, rather than "one careful owners"
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I recommend a Fiat Cinquecento. Lowest insurance group, low road tax, a wheel at each corner and small enough to fit in any space. You can achieve better than 50 mpg. Servicing and repairs are a doddle and the engine has pushrods so no cambelt. Also it is very difficult to speed in one so your licence stays intact.
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I'm standing by the Escort - dirt cheap servicing, anybody can do it - I paid (admittedly this was summer 2000) something like £100 for a cambelt change and main service. Its got the speed that you need without having too much! I would be very worried letting a newly passed driver out in a 900cc fiat or something small like that certainly if they will be driving on 60/70mph roads as I don't believe they offer the power required or the safety needed. At least the Escort has Airbags (& ABS on newer models) You can pick up decent 1994 (okay - its the older shape, but hey, its cheap!) examples for around £750 from a decent garage.
In Autotrader - Ford Escort 1.6 Zetec N-reg 74,000 £1,275 (Liverpool)
- Bargain!
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That does sound like a deal. But, whatever you do, get an insurance quote or nine before you buy anything.
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Totally agree with you DavidHM. When I first learnt how to drive 12 years ago, I had to have a 900cc to keep insurance down. Its then a natural progression onto 1.3, 1.4, 1.6 etc etc when you build up your no claims bonus.
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Safety, will he survive in the shell, reliability, running costs and insurance. Particularly when he puts the car in his name so he accues NCD.
VW Polo 1 or possible 1.3 monotronic Polo Older shape.
Worked well for two of my three children.
Regards
Peter
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if it's any help, colleague of mine (Epsom, Surrey) selling B reg white Polo for £200 "or less" - regularly used, MoT to May '03.
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No servo assistance on the Polo's brakes though.
A silly omission by VW IMO as otherwise ideal.
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Peter
I agree. It's difficult, as insurance forces learners into small cars. I completely ignored Minis, 2CVs and small Fiats as I was unhappy about their crash worthiness. Looked at Polos, but couldn't find anything any good at a reasonable price.
Regards
John S
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John,
Spoke with the guy who services our Land Rover today and he totally agrees with your opinion on Corsas'. So they are still in the frame.
Cheers
VD5D
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How about a diesel corsa - they are bulletproof. My mother got a 1.7 a couple of months after I passed. I used to use it to shuttle between uni (Sunderland) & home (Leeds).
They should be quite cheap.
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Series III Land Rover. Dirt cheap to buy, servicing is VERY cheap and easy to do!
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Graham,
Series III Land Rover. Dirt cheap to buy, servicing is VERY >> cheap and easy to do!
I've already got one, it's a Series III Lightweight converted to run on LPG which also makes it cheap to run, sadly my son refuses to drive it. I suppose I agree with him, it's not the easiest vehicle for a learner to drive, so it looks like it will have to go unfortunately.
VD5D
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And, unfortunately, very expensive to insure for a 17yo learner!
Regards
John S
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VD5D
Don't sell you know you'll regret it. It will hold it's value where as anything else will have negative value in a couple of years.
My three kids absolutly love mine, as my 6 yr old likes to drive it (sat on my lap) why is your lad haveing such problems!
I've got two Lt Wt's.
To whoever wrote about ins: Is the insurance so much more for the Landy then? My ins as an old git is £84/ yr fully comp for me and spouse. I think that's cheap!
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Graham,
Where on earth do you get this insurance quote from?!
HF
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Graham
It's just that when I owned a LR I recall the insurance group was relatively high for the performance, and that would make it a no-no for a youngster. I'm guessing to get insurance for £84 it is a classic or limited mileage policy? These too impose heavy premium increases for young drivers, although excellent value for us more mature types.
Regards
John S
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Phil,
>>How about a diesel corsa - they are bulletproof. My mother got >>a 1.7 a couple of months after I passed. I used to use it to >>shuttle between uni (Sunderland) & home (Leeds).
Sounds sensible, I'm searching the web as I type.
VD5D.
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I'm searching the web as I type.
Very impressive. Can you pat your head and rub your tummy at the same time too?
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No2 (age 18) son bought a 1.1 Fiesta -1993 50k miles, just £1050. Very reliable and economical. Dead easy to work on.. avoid rusty ones. Group 3 insurance.
No1 son who is older bought himself a Peugeot 106 1.1 petrol 23k miles. Same comments but better handling /body/fuel economy but cost more..
Don't buy anything with expensive spares/ poor dealer network/ known faults/ dodgy electrics. I would rule out all Italian cars: after a few years poor electrics combine with rust to create a never ending sea of troubles..imo.
Anything that is fast or bulky (bigger than an Escort) is just asking to be crashed/ hit something in car parks etc or cost £s (relative to a smaller car) to run.
You also want something where if he does crash, he has a reasonable chance of survival.. hence no rusty small Fiats..
madf
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I would say that the 106 is not designed for someone who is tall - other than that its a basic car that is very cheap. It does suffer from the same 206 disease of pedals too close together...
They also do a fine diesel fiesta (the very car I learnt to drive in) even though the magazines slate it.
The question you need to ask is do you want a higher mileage newer car, or a low mileage older car? Insurance wise I would guess there wouldn't be a lot of difference as the big risk is your son and his lack of experience.
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You didn't say what your budget was. Can you stretch to a new shape Astra, maybe 1.4? I reckon you must be able to track down early ones relatively cheaply, altho worth checking carbycar breakdown first!
Failing that, and please don't laugh, how about a Daewoo Lanos (I think thats the smaller one). They seem to be dirt cheap.
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Very impressive. Can you pat your head and rub your tummy at the same time too?
Why would I want to?
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Thanks for all the help everyone. I think what I'll do is make a shortlist of the various recommendations and perhaps visit some local auctions and look on the Autotrader and E&M web-sites local papers for a suitable car near to where I live.
Budget up to £2,500, maybe more if I can sell the LR, as this will be used as a second car/run about so I'll add Harry to my insurance for now. I was told by the lady at NFU where I insure the Landy that if Harry goes on to do Pass Plus after his driving test he will be able to build up his own no claims bonus even though he's on my insurance. Sounds like something I should look into.
Cheers
VD5D.
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