The police technique is not foot off everything in these circumstances because, if you're driving a manual, foot off everything can provoke a reaction at the driven wheels and start a slide. So what the cops are trained to do is dip the clutch and freewheel. This is why SAABs used to be fitted with freewheels and partly why Eric Carlsson used to win rallys in them.
HJ
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I have always used the freewheel technique.
Can't remember being taught it, I must have either read it up somewhere or else it just came naturally and logically.
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But how do you hear the silent wheels over the CD player at 22 volume?
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Yup. "Dip and freewheel" is what I was taught, too.
Saw a classic case of Big Car, small.... (brain!) this morning, when a Beemer Five driver decided he knew best, and proceeded to overtake the 15 mph traffic on a very slippery, ungritted, residential street, with considerable gusto. When one quarter alongside me, he lost control, bounced off the offside kerb, and chickening out, hit the brakes. After an antilocking moment, he *just*, oh so close, tucked in behind, and then hit the nearside kerb. Ten seconds later he was back, welded to my tailgate, before sliding wide in to the side road rode that (I presume!) he intended to take.
Oh for the joys of motoring in Sweden last week, on snow and ice, with proper studded snow tyres, and not one show of impatience in three days and a considerable distance. Traffic was making good progress, too.
/Steve
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This is why SAABs used to be fitted with freewheels and partly why Eric Carlsson used to win rallys in them. HJ
Sir, Sir !! don't want to argue with God but i was lead to beleive the freewheel on the saab was originally on the three cylinder 2-stroke on the Saab 96 because Scandinavia has lots of ups, and just as many downs, and without the freewheel, if you coast down a long hill with a two-stroke engine, the engine is deprived of lubrication and is likely to seize.
well that's what i was told anyway
Happy xmas to everybody out there !!
I have to grow old - but I don't have to grow up
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borasport20
I believe you're right, as premix 2-strokes can suffer lack of lubrication on long downhills.
Was it not the old '50s (?) Rovers that also sported freewheels? No obvious reason for that, other than it saved clutch wear as clutchless gearchanges were possible once you were on the move.
Regards
John S
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Early P4 Rovers had them, a bit disconcerting if you'd never driven one before and were expecting engine breaking!
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Not in my day HJ.
DVD
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You guys are probably right about the primary reason for fitting freewheels to two-stroke SAABs. But I've had both a two-stroke SAAB and a P3 Rover (P2 body, test-bed P4 running gear), both had freewheels and on both the freewheel was a huge help on ice and snowbound Northumberland roads because of the lack of resistance in the drive.
HJ
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I can't believe that ice takes so many people by surprise! Even if the road was merely wet the stopping distance should be doubled, with the brine solution being even more slippery heaven only knows what the stopping distance is. But what did we see this morning? all the usual tailgating. Morons gambling with other peoples lives!
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Like you Graham, I don't know why people assume they can drive on ice the way they would on a dry road. Where I live is very rural, and the nearest road to get grit in cold weather is six miles of B roads away. I once took an icy corner too fast (at just 15 mph) about six months after passing my test, and fortunately only had to replace a foglight as a result. Never had a problem driving on ice since, I just accept that my journey time will be a lot longer and that I need to have almost stopped before turning a corner - so far I've managed to make it in one piece. That said, owning a RWD car for the first time in my life has been interesting over the past week. Having heard about BMW handling on ice, I decided to experiment a little when the road was clear and give it a little welly for a second, when I was most of the way around a corner. Even though I was almost straightened up, the back end started to slither a *lot*, so I eased off straight away to avoid ending up in the ditch. It certainly taught me even more respect for the ice than I already had!
On a related subject, what is the best way to get past a gritter? As mentioned above, they are often out to prepare the roads before ice actually forms. On three different occasions, I have had to choose between travelling for over an hour at 20 mph on a motorway or overtaking in a hail of grit, which in one car chipped the paintwork quite badly. Should I overtake quickly to try and minimise damage, or will my higher speed mean damage is more likely to result?
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Whilst the topic is ice related........may I seek the views of those of you who live in the sticks regarding two wheel drive versus four. This may include the relative pros and cons of lightweight models (Jimny etc.) as opposed to L.R's and Shoguns....... as opposed to the likes of the Skoda/Audi/Subaru type of 4WD saloons.
Maybe snow tyres on a spare set of wheels is just as good?
Await with interest.
KB.
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Down here in the boiling hot south, today was the first day this winter that I've actually had thick ice all over my car first thing in the morning. And the first time my car has been slightly reluctant to start.
However, we hardly ever see see salt/grit *anywhere*, just maybe occasionally along the main roads but for those of us in side roads, forget it. Getting out of my road and the surrouding side-roads is a nightmare in these conditions.
HF
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KB.
Regarding 4WD. Brilliant traction in poor conditions eg snow and mud but on sheet ice they will slide with the best of them with the added problem of the high centre of gravity which causes them to fall over on verges and kerbs. The bigger and heavier they are the greater the momentum!
A couple of years ago when we had a cracking overnight frost nearly every RTA involved a 4WD. I think the problem is that the majority of owners are not aware of the dangers and limitations of their vehicle and believe they can surmount all types of conditions.
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I'm obliged FC. Presumably, you're saying that, on sheet ice, the 4x4 *vehicles* were neither better nor worse than their 2WD counterparts - but their *drivers* were expecting more hence going quicker hence coming to grief more often than 2WD drivers who had lower expectations of their vehicles.
Worth taking note of. Thanks.
KB.
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If there is ice around wheelbase and track are also important since the longer/wider your vehicle is, the less chance there is that all four wheels will be sliding at the same time. Even out in the sticks a lot of farmers get by with 2wd car-based panel vans or estates for the on-road work. I even know of one in Northumberland near Corbridge who was using an Escort van off-road while checking his sheep feeders. He told me he did it once when his Subaru pickup broke down and found it didn't make much difference on tracks and unploughed fields, so why pay more for 4x4 as long as the ground clearance is ok? But then these chaps are very skilled at driving off-road since they do it every day.
Chris
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andymc,
"That said, owning a RWD car for the first time in my life has been interesting over the past week."
Thats a good point. Whenever I see motoring programmes go on about how great RWD is it always makes me wince!
In the UK during the winter RWD can be very tricky, add an automatic gear box and it becomes downright hazardous. Many inexperienced drivers get caught out and more than a few who have taken delivery of their first BMW or Merc auto.
It would be good if they pointed out that the ability to power slide that they love so much, can also mean snap oversteer on ice at very slow speeds.
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And the problem will only get worse.
This generation has been mostly brought up on FWD.
The number of RWD "dinosaurs" will decline.
This then almost gaurantees that anybody buying their first "nice" car in, say, 5 years time will stuff it when they encounter their first slippery roundabout.
(p.s - I REALLY know about this - I stuffed a 911 20 years ago - ooops!)
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