No, not cut-down VR6s. We're talking registration documents here and none of you can have failed to be aware of the quite funny COI ad campaign telling you not to buy a car without one. But just in case you were unaware, from 1st February, if you don't have a V5 for the vehicle, or don't have a licence reminder, then you can't tax it until you get one. No problem, you may think. You'll simply use a V62. Well, though my last V62 V5 came through in a month, there has been a surge of V62 V5 applications and, since they involve writing to the former keeper, the back-log is now so bad it can take 8 - 12 weeks before you get your V5. Can't tax it without. Can't sell it without. So don't buy it without. At auction or anywhere else.
HJ
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V5 is the log book/registration doc, yeah?
I bought my car, took the red and green tear off strip signed by the owner, leaving him with the document itself to send off. (As it says on the doc itself)
I've had nothing in the post yet and will need to renew in 2 months.
Can I use the tear off strip (the one for the new owner) even if the previous owner hasn't sent his section off?
Up until now I was *pleased* I hadn't got the registration doc because of the camera problem.
What action should I take? Sending off the log book is clearly the previous owners responsibility.
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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I might be wrong Toad but isn't it supposed to be the other way round ? The original owner fills in and sends off the slip at the bottom of the form (Notification of Sale or Transfer) and you get the top portion of the V5 and have to fill out the reverse of it in order to get a new document in your name. That's how I've always done it anyway. HTH
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Correct, you are wrong!
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Frostbite (very apt at present) I have my V5 in front of me now and the reverse of the bottom tear off section states:
"You must fill in the NOST slip overleaf and send it to DVLC yourself to show that you are no longer resposnible for this vehilce or its use."
It goes on to say:
"Give the top part of the this document to the NEW KEEPER who must fill in the section above and return the document immediately to the DVLC. A new registration document will then be issued."
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Blimey Volvoman, how long since you moved or changed cars...that's a vintage V5!
MM
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Ahhhh... - all is revealed ! Bought the car in 1997 and moved here in 1986. So that's what we pay the blighters for then is it ? To turn the old form upside-down.
Mind you, when someone can go and obtain the Home Secretary's birth certificate and then a driving licence in his name without any alarm bells ringing, nothing surprises me anymore.
ps. Is it possible that Toad's V5 was an 'antique' too and that's why he hasn't heard anything back ?
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Delighted to see we are both right (or wrong) volvoman. I think the procedure on your V5 makes more sense - must be the reason it was changed, that will never do.
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volvoman
Nope toad is right. Current V5's leave the new (private) owner with the Green V5/2 section and the seller sends off the main part.
I believe you can tax the car with the green V5/2 section.
Regards
John S
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I believe you can tax the car with the green V5/2 section.
Thanks John. That's what I'd hoped!
Very silly of the previous owner not to send it off. If he has to explain who was driving through a Safety Camera at 71mph I certainly won't be helping him. A refusal to identify the driver conviction is assured for him.
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Volvoman - slightly off topic - I sold a 205 privately with some tax remaining a couple of years ago. When the refunds came out for the revised emission-based rates, its new owner had not yet written to DVLA, so I got the £55 rebate for the old car as well as its replacement!
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What I see here is a great buying opportunity at auction for a handful of people who can either (a) afford to buy a vehicle and keep it off the road for a few weeks or (b) don't give a stuff about the law and will run a car for a few weeks untaxed. Prices of cars at auction sans V5 are going to plummet (as pointed out in today's auction report on Micras). Unfortunately, I don't fit in either group.
Alternatively, and more likely, this will mean that sellers will have to get their act in gear or accept the cost of not having the V5 when selling.
V
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Question for HJ or other traders:
The new V5 rule is unlikely to trouble most private sellers. The real question is, what are the traders going to do now - because from my experience of visiting auctions, it seems that a very large number of cars are sold without V5s. I bought ex-central cars twice and both times the auctioneer had said V5 to follow. However, the rental companies - in both cases - when chased a week or two later said "V5 has been misplaced, cannot be found, and so you will have to apply via a V62".
So tell us HJ, what are the trade and rental/hire fleets going to do now?
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Can one buy a car without a V5 and 'SORN' it, as opposed to taxing it, immediately?
If so, one could quite legally drive the car home by calling in at a pre-arranged MOT test on the way.
Just a thought, if like me you sometimes buy old bangers for spares.
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You won't believe the trouble I had when I was selling one of my cars. Some guy rang up saying he would buy it and asked for the reg number. Stupidly I gave it to him together with my name and address, not wanting to jeopardise a sale. A day later he hadn't called back as promised so the alarm bells started ringing. Contacted the DVLA and found out he was trying to clone my car, first of all was trying to get a new V5, together with change of address, probably then would have changed the owner?
He must have had a nice stolen Golf GTI 1.8T locked up somewhere, ready to sell!
Be careful!
Andrew
Regards
Andrew
www.hispecgolfs.co.uk
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The V5 issue seems to be taking a while to sink in to both the trade and to fleets selling cars. But, once it does, cars without V5s will probably be worth 15% - 20% less than cars with them. Just think of the numbers: dealer buys a car for £10,000 and puts it up for £11,000. But he can't sell it for 10 weeks because he has no V5 and anyway, in order to get a V5, he has to register it to himself and put another owner on the V5. So that's £10,000 tied up for 10 weeks against a potential profit of just £1,000. But if he has £8,000 tied up for 10 weeks against a potential profit of £3,000, then it might be worthwhile. The first thing that's going to happen is that all those lazy fleet managers and admin people who can;t be bothered to find the V5s before they send their cars to auction are suddenly going to have to be bothered. But most snatchbacks will still be without V5s, unless the defaulter is persuaded that his debt will be 20% less if he hands over the V5 as well as the keys.
HJ
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Its always amazed me that these lease companies seem quite happy for thier drivers to lose spare keys/owners manuals/security tags e.t.c. The V5/service books/MOT certs are probably the most valuable but still go missing.
Perhaps this new legislation might force them apply harsh financial penalties to lessors who 'misplace' these documents.
If you are right HJ and the trade mark down V5-less cars by 15% then it will grab the attention of the financial people very quickly!.
In the long run this is probably a good thing. Its always a hassle chasing documents e.t.c
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So great value for we private buyers. I like to change our cars often - buy the right one at auction and you can get free motoring in a nice car. I have always preferred cars without V5s because they are cheaper, it's going to go in my name anyway and I don't mind hanging around for the V5. So the new regs make things better for me. Our main car was a snatchback so no service book either, which means additional discount on a M-B. A replacement book is a matter of some phoning and faxing and £3.50 for the duplicate book.
PB.
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PB - purely for the
uninitiated, doesn't buying a car without any of the usual documents make it extremely difficult to sell on ? I wouldn't touch a car like that and am wondering who would ?
Also how do you check what you're buying at auction if there are no documents ?
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Volvoman,
What's at issue here is not that you can never receive the V5, just that there is a delay of several weeks. So, the private buyer who plans to keep the car suffers a little inconvenience at the most, whereas the dealer has to register it to himself and keep his capital tied up uselessly while waiting for the V5.
V
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Understood Vin & thanks.
But what about people like PB, how do they check what they're buying with no service records etc. and how does he sell on the car without the same ? We're always being told to only buy used cars with a good or full service history.
Also, how do you know a car hasn't been nicked if there's no V5 when you buy it ?
Please be gentle with me guys, I'm a virgin in such matters ;-)
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Remember, PB, you can't tax the car without the V5 or VED reminder. So, unless you have trade plates, you'll be running illegal for up to 12 weeks. And if you do have trade plates, you are restricted to using the car for trade purposes. Get caught taking the kids to school on trade plates and you lose them (the paltes, not the kids).
HJ
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Doesn't that imply that lease companies will have to start selling the cars with tax on them though? I realise that not all cars will have three months' tax left anyway, but when it's possible it's surely worth not claiming back for the unused tax.
(I've never driven a lease car; is the tax usually the responsibility of the driver/keeper? If so, maybe it would be in the leasing company's interest to change this and include tax in the price, taxing 1 year/1 year/6 months/1 year on a three year lease).
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Once the initial rush for V5s is over (my next car swap won't be till March) then I hope we'll soon get back to the 3-4 weeks I'm used to. I would simply use the car without tax then apply backdated with a V62. I'm prepared to take the risk as I know I have the right intent, and not only do we not use the cars much anyway, but they are very rarely parked on the street.
To Volvoman's question on docs, I only buy at BCA auction, fleet, finance or manufacturer. I am guaranteed title and the V5 eventually - I usually get it within a month. Service is trickier, you have to make a judgement unless they have a printout. With the snatchback ML for instance, I checked the service indicator when they fired it up. It tells you how near a service you are, so at least I knew it had been done once!
PB.
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Thanks PB - so I guess you get a nice car cheaply and when it comes to sell it on, although you get less for it than a car with FSH it doesn't matter 'cos you paid less for it in the first place.
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Not quite - once I've tracked down the servicing garages I get them to stamp up a duplicate book. Now I have the FSH again, so no problem at resale - as I have all the phone numbers etc. I can give them to the buyer and suggest they check it out directly themselves.
This can take a few weeks (you need the V5 as proof of ownership then they need to order in a duplicate book) but as I'm in no hurry it doesn't matter. Obviously there is still the risk that the service history is very poor so you have to make a good judgement on the car.
PB.
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We're now 3 months down the track. Has your prediction of 15% - 20% 'discounts' come true? I understand replacement V5s are now taking 4 - 6 weeks.
Chris M
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