Not all that uncommon for the likes of this. Basically, the prosecution hope is that your friend confesses all and admits the charge. As Joe says, the case has to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt. I sat through a case some years ago involving someone I knew slightly. He was accused of driving with due consideration etc after finding himself held up by a dawdling lady driver at whom he allegedly screamed abuse during overtaking and also after overtaking while slowing her down in turn. Knowing him to be a fairly volatile character, I had little doubt he would have done just this (and he admitted as much to me after the case) but he appeared before the magistrates in a smart business suit, volunteered a clean driving licence and recounted clearly a much more subdued chain of events. The prosecution witness, on the other hand, was easily confused about matters such as speed, how long the incident lasted, and couldn't say precisely what he was supposed to have shouted at her. The charge was dismissed.
Assuming your friend's companion supports his case, it boils down to who are the most credible witnesses. Since it may be before a sheriff in Scotland, it's harder to pull the wool over his/her eyes than lay magistrates but there's no reason to suppose your friend won't get the result he wants, provided he is confident and straightforward. It'll take some effort but presumably the insurance implications alone of a conviction make fighting the case worthwhile.
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CM
It is not the Police that are taking your friend to Court but Crown Prosecution Service. Plod reports the matter to them and it is they who decide whether or not to prosecute aftyer vetting the evidence.
I doubt very much they would run a case on a one against one basis as they only authorise if there is s very high probabilty of a conviction.
If your friend has been served with a summons then I would suspect there is a bit more evidence than your friend is letting on to you.
Still many strange things happen....
DVD
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It happens all the time round here (East Yorkshire). There is the 'army school of mechanical transport' that has 100's if not 1000's of 'L' plated lorries out on the road each day dawdling along at max 45mph, hill starts (up and down) on blind apex's etc. From what I've read in the local paper, the instructors report other mortorists on a regular basis.
Martin
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That will be the Army School of Muddle and Trouble (ASMT get it?)
At 45MPH must have had a back wind as well. Yes they are somewhat tiresome.
You do not have a relative that works for the HDM do you?
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DVD
This appears to be a Scottish case so no CPS involvement. Instead it would be handled through a procurator fiscal who generally has a more locally-focussed attitude than the CPS. Additionally, if this case involves Grampian Constabulary, it is not at all strange it is being pursued, although I agree there may be more information that hasn't been revealed.
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Its not unusual at all. I had a case today (on a guilty plea) where a motorcylcist had overtaken a car on double white lines. The driver took his number and reported it to the Police. The Police recorded a statement of evidence and the rider was summoned. He was fined and pointed.
Hearsay Evidence is when, had I been a friend of the above driver, had phoned the Police and I had made a statement outlining what my friend had seen and told me about.
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So is it actually worth reporting some of the idiots we see on the road? I've always put up with it and bemoaned the lack of a traffic cop when you need one...
That said, I can see how it could be abused as well as being very difficult to get a conviction. Out of interest, how likely would the police or CPS be to take of mitigating circumstances? There have been 1 or 2 occasions where I've taken small risks out of frustration. Nothing like as bad as some mentioned here, but more than I would normally take. One for example was when I was following a BMW back from Whitchurch to the M56. Anything moderately twisty and he was down to 25, but anywhere I might have been able to get past, he was straight up to 60 - 65. I finally kept an eye out for what looked like a straight stretch coming up (watching trees and headlights) and was ready to pounce before he could react. Not as safe as it could be, but I did rather want to get home that night...
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I may be wrong, but don't Scottish courts require corroboration of the evidence? I would have guessed this was the major difficulty in this instance.
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He'll have overtaken a mason.
HJ
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Now then, where did I put that Black shirt...
If they want us out of our cars, why don't they just tax us to high heaven, prosecute anyone with automated cameras, introduce extra charges for urban roads, fill the streets with sleeping policemen, don't build any roads to help with congestion and then just prosecute anyone who points a finger at anyone else.
Oh, yes. They're already doing all that.
If everyone rang plod each and every time they saw some dodgy driving, they'd be so overwhelmed it would be untrue.
Perhaps we should all become freelance "traffic police helpers"
"Things, can only get better"
Hmmmm
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If he did overtake on a blind bend then he should receive considerable punishment, as this sort of driving is a menace. No different from pointing an air pistol in a random direction with eyes closed and pulling the trigger.
They must have more evidence to go to court. Perhaps a mobile plod was following a car or two behind?
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If everyone rang plod each and every time they saw some dodgy driving, they'd be so overwhelmed it would be untrue. Perhaps we should all become freelance "traffic police helpers"
Interesting thought, Citroenian - but it wouldn't work. I think we, generally, as the British population tend to put up and shut up over so many issues, and our natural way is to have a moan but accept things anyway. For this, or any other kind of protest, it would need a HUGE amount of people to come together for anyone in power to listen - and sadly we Brits don't seem able to do that.
HF
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HF,
You're right in what you say, but my point was more that if each and everyone of us followed up each and every dodgy bit of driving, it would become a practical impossibility for plod to see them all through to prosecution. Much the same as if everyone took their fixed penalties to court, the system would collapse.
You're right - the way here in blighty seems to be accept and put up so most will just pay up and move on. The system relies on this.
Lee
PS...I seem to have gone off on rant mode at the moment, I'm putting it down to all the cold-busting drugs (non drowsy mind!) that I'm filling myself with at present. Hopefully when the sinuses clear I'll be back to my happy self...
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PS...I seem to have gone off on rant mode at the moment, I'm putting it down to all the cold-busting drugs (non drowsy mind!) that I'm filling myself with at present. Hopefully when the sinuses clear I'll be back to my happy self...
If they contain seudephedrine then welcome to the equivalent of a double espresso with a healthy side order of unexplained irrational outbursts. Paranoia in pill form.
Clear the nose, mind.
No Dosh - but then who has?
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Not sure what they contain, but I got the box with MAX! on it. Didn't fancy any of that namby-pamby 'min' stuff, and 'average' was never gonna cut it.
"I want them to find out the dose that will kill me, back off a little and give me that" [Seinfeld]
Whatever is in them, either they have stopped the sniffling or I'm now so spaced out that I don't notice or care anymore. :-)
Er, and that's no state to be driving a car [tenuous motoring link]
Lee.
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"Much the same as if everyone took their fixed penalties to court, the system would collapse."
Absolutely, the system relies on mute compliance.
The target for speeding convictions this year is three million.
If even ten percent of that number went to court it would far exceed the courts capacity, even working 24 hours per day seven days per week.
The only thing against it is that court fines tend to exceed the fixed penalty, but if enough people were willing to fork out a few quid we could break the system.
(Alternatively make sure you don't get caught and the system becomes uneconomic)
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(Alternatively make sure you don't get caught and the system becomes uneconomic)
What kind of madness is this?
No Dosh - but then who has?
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> PS...I seem to have gone off on rant mode at themoment, I'm putting it down to all the cold-busting drugs (non drowsy mind!) that I'm filling myself with at present. Hopefully when the sinuses clear I'll be back to my happy self...
>>
Hi Lee, don't worry about it, many of us are in rant mode at the moment!
It IS a pity that the great British public don't stand up a bit more for their rights, though. There are many political things that this applies to as well, but I won't say anything, because I don't want to be deleted by our freshly-tanned moderator!
It's a lovely idea that 'if we all made a stand.......'etc etc etc - but the sad truth remains that most of us won't.
HF
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Under new police guidelines, in some parts of the country, they won't even investigate a burglary unless you have, positive ID, or a car Reg No or some DNA evidence. So much for what you pay in taxes, tough on crime and the causes of crime, write a poem and get out of jail free etc!
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I would have said that without independent corroborative evidence then the matter would not be pursued. However as Pug gives us an example to the contrary then maybe that is not necessarily the case.
I am also inclined to think that there is slightly more to this than meets the eye!
Martin123. The max speed for those army lorries is infact 40MPH. They are also "mobile traffic calming" Which paper have you read about the instructors complaints in?
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Martin123. The max speed for those army lorries is infact 40MPH. They are also "mobile traffic calming" Which paper have you read about the instructors complaints in?
I'd seen them refered to as 'mobile traffic calming' or 'rolling chicanes', I must have passed a good one at 45 going down a hill.
It was a 'letter to the editor' in the Hull Daily Mail (Beverley edition) - that had a couple of rants in it sparked off by some guy who had a phone call from plod to explain his driving exploits.
(sorry can't find it on their web site).
Martin
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That will be the Army School of Muddle and Trouble (ASMT get it?)
At 45MPH must have had a back wind as well. Yes they are somewhat tiresome.
You do not have a relative that works for the HDM do you?
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You do not have a relative that works for the HDM do you?
Not that I'm aware of.
I did manage to get the bike onto the (ex?)runway once - an out of body experience - well the brain must have been somewhere else ;-)
Martin
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Under new police guidelines, in some parts of the country, they won't even investigate a burglary unless you have, positive ID, or a car Reg No or some DNA evidence. So much for what you pay in taxes, tough on crime and the causes of crime, write a poem and get out of jail free etc!
Although presumably if you catch the miscreant in the act and swat him with a large blunt instrument, the Police would prosecute you for assault even though they didnt have enough evidence to prosecute the burgalar.
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"He'll have overtaken a mason."
Good point, HJ! But I hope not, as there may be one on the bench.
I fear this could be one of our Scotch stitch-ups which can only be beaten by going to appeal.
Tomo
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PU
One against one and a Guilty plea?
Presumably the defendant coughed loud and true.
What is it like to be in the presence of a of a Saint....
DVD
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One against one and a Guilty plea? Presumably the defendant coughed loud and true.
DVD?s trusty old lead filled hosepipe is as compelling as ever!
It?s news to me that double whites apply to bikes. I thought like bus lanes and traffic lights we were exempt! ;-)
--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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It?s news to me that double whites apply to bikes. I thought like bus lanes and traffic lights we were exempt! ;-)
I thought double whites were a narrow bike lane ;-) ;-)
Martin
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Yes he did....! He is a decent, hard working, chap who got carried away on a nice day. Being an old fashioned (albeit fast) type, he coughed the lot when stopped by the cops about 6 miles down the road. He got reported for summons as the Cop was following the letter of the law on FPT issue. He got fined £60.0)
quid and three points, hopefully me speaking up for him made a differnece. As he said to me If they'd have seen him earlier and the speed he was going at it would have been a bit more than £60.00.
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